trouble with a cabinet lock

[vinnie]

a friend was junking some old metal cabinets and grabbed this lock off one for me. I can see that it clearly has disk tumblers, but am having a darned hard time trying to pick it. I've never picked disk tumblers before, what's generally the preferred tool? And are there any tips/tricks? Also, for this type of lock can I expect that the cylinder will be able to come out when I open it?

thanks


pictures:

[Altashot]

This one will only pick one way locked and the other unlocked.
These wafer drawer/cabinet locks normally pick easy.
Maybe a wafer is bent and stuck or maybe the pin that drives the cam broke, it could be jammed...
Does the plug rotate back and forth freely? Does the cam wiggle freely?

M.

[Squelchtone]

I can see that it clearly has disk tumblers,

Just a small clarification so you can stay on the right path to picking these locks. The flat plates inside are more of a rectangle than a circular "disk". These are more commonly known as wafer locks. You can call them wafer tumblers, I personally hate the term tumbler when used to describe any lock, be it wafer or pin. We usually reserve the word disc, for disc detainer locks such as Abloy, LAI, Baton, and other brands. In those locks, there are flat round discs that actually rotate about the axis. The round disc detainer discs, can be seen in this photo: http://lockwiki.com/images/2/2c/Abloy_Classic_discs_all.jpg

The cutout window in the wafer tumblers shifts up or down depending on the wafer number, think of these as the pin sizes in a lock, they determine how shallow or deep the key cuts will be. Here is a photo of some wafer tumblers next to a plug.


(you may have to Right-Click this image and click View Image to see all 3 wafers in the photo)

If you were to look at the operation of your lock, the flat metal plates are spring loaded and they slide back and fourth as the key or pick is inserted. A piece of the wafer plates sticks out of the plug into the lock body and this is what stops the lock from turning, there's metal in the way. The key or a pick will slide all of the plates into the center of the plug so that neither the top nor the bottom of the wafer plates is sticking out into the lock body, and then the lock is free to turn.

This wafer lock animation video should be very helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zap_VWcwtvk

What picks are you using to try to open that lock? A half ball or snowman will work very well, as will a half diamond. I wouldnt use a hook or S rake on these, and an L rake or city rake should also work very well.

Altashot is correct about the direction, it will only turn one way to unlock it, perhaps you were tensioning it CCW where it should be CW or the other way around.

good luck with it, keep us posted,
Squelchtone

[GWiens2001]

The other problem I see when inexperienced people try to pick wafer locks is putting their tension wrench in too far, blocking one or more wafers from free travel. Make sure when you put in your tension wrench that you have it in shallow enough to not block that first wafer!

Gordon

[vinnie]

Thanks a lot for the advice everyone. The problem I am having then is applying tension the wrong direction. Since it's a wide opening none of my tension wrenches were working and with limited resources with me I had to try to make one that would work by bending up a bobby pin in a peculiar way. But I was only able to tension comfortably in one direction with it, so haven't tried the other direction. I'll bend up another tool and see where that gets me and report back.

[Phantom1016]

That is very similar to the locks we have on our key-boxes here (wide opening requiring large tension wrench and everything too), so we do those a lot. Raking those has been very easy with some crude full diamond tips, usually only takes up 5 or so rakes, or a couple of rakes and a little poking around, but raking on cheap wafers can bend them easily, so be gentle (ask me how I know ). I assume the tension direction was your problem, but if it's not, and you're still running into something, my first guess would be a bent wafer. You can drill out the rivets and inspect them. Just a thought. Good luck!

[Squelchtone]

Raking those has been very easy with some crude full diamond tips,

Can you post a photo of what this looks like? Is the tip really a <> like I am imagining? or just a < like a half diamond normally is?

Thank you,
Squelchtone

[Phantom1016]

Its a <> but they're offset, the bottom one is a little smaller, and back about 1mm. It looks like a snake, but it's solid all the way, does that make sense? I wish I had a picture for you, but I don't have a camera I think the fact that it's solid, unlike a snake, is what gives me the heavy hand and made me bend the wafers. I'm still getting used to when to put the pressure where.

[MBI]

Can you post a photo of what this looks like? Is the tip really a <> like I am imagining? or just a < like a half diamond normally is?

Thank you,
Squelchtone

I've seen full diamond picks in some really old spring-steel picksets.
I don't have a photo of one, but a quick search yielded this diagram which shows what they look like.
Basically, large, unweildy and as far as I can tell, mostly useless.
I don't recall what brand the ones I've seen were, but they had silver handles, similar to HPC, Majestic and the old Pro-Lok picks.

It's the fifth one down:

[vinnie]

sorry took me a while to get back. very busy month.

Turns out the tension direction was the main problem. This particular one has to turn clockwise. Then I came across the problem that there was no way to take the cylinder out once it's unlocked. The only way was to file the rivets and take the back plate off. But definitely a great easy learner for my first experience with disk tumblers. And I did find the easiest picking method was definitely raking it.

Thanks again everyone

[ice_man]

it is not a disk lock it is a wafer lock i would suggest using jiggler keys they always work for me they only take a few seconds i would try the medium ones

[sandplum]

it is not a disk lock it is a wafer lock

Actually, he is not incorrect in referring to it as a "disk tumbler". The lock manuafacturers call it a disc tumbler, as well as the vendors who sell it and the locksmiths who buy it and install it. Just because you like the name "wafer lock" doesn't make "disc tumbler" wrong. There is a whole industry using it, which kinda makes it official, even if it is confusing. Kinda like the name "tubular lock"....

[Squelchtone]

it is not a disk lock it is a wafer lock

Actually, he is not incorrect in referring to it as a "disk tumbler". The lock manuafacturers call it a disc tumbler, as well as the vendors who sell it and the locksmiths who buy it and install it. Just because you like the name "wafer lock" doesn't make "disc tumbler" wrong. There is a whole industry using it, which kinda makes it official, even if it is confusing. Kinda like the name "tubular lock"....

I think ice_man was trying to make a distinction that it is not an Abloy style disk lock, but I will let him chime in, in case that is not what he meant.

Thanks to all in the discussion, it only leads to a better understanding for everyone.
Squelchtone