Need to Re-key an OLD floor safe

[68merc]

I have a round floor safe door that came from an gas station before 1964. My grandfather worked for Standard oil and did remodel work for the franchise, I'm sure that is where it came from...

anyway, the brass name plate says:
Model -A-
DOUBLE DOOR IN-A-FLOOR SAFE
BY IN-A-FLOOR SAFE CO LTD
Los Angles CA

I have removed the lock mech, looks like a Diebold key would fit the keyway.





My questions. Where can I get a set of keys? Where can I get info on re-keying? Can anyone give me a manufacturer name for the lock?

There are no markings on the lock, only the word Patent on the striker.

Thanks in advance.
Murray

[femurat]

You have a very nice safe door, be careful not to ruin it. look for a safe tech and not a generic locksmith...

Good luck and let us know how this story ends

[jonathanelopez]

To me... That looks just like a lock you'd find on a safety deposit box... Hard to tell without looking into the keyway there...

[MacGyver101]

Very interesting. That's certainly from an early version of their safe; the only pictures I've seen of their round safe-heads have the keyhole in the centre of the door, and use a standard-footprint safe lock (the more modern keyed versions used a LaGard 2200).

[MacGyver101]

Aha! Just did a little more research for you: that lock is either an S&G 4161 or an S&G 4163 (a slightly-modified safe deposit lock). They were the exclusive supplier for the In-A-Floor Model "A" (which is what you appear to have there), starting in 1932.

[Squelchtone]

Based on what Macgyver101 has found, your key blank is probably a 1063D like the one here:

http://www.avcokey.com/sg1-sargent-and- ... 1063d.aspx

sometimes these blanks show up on ebay, its just a matter of finding.

Are you familiar enough with lever locks to mark the key and cut the slots in it using a hacksaw blade or some sort of thin file?

I wonder if a local locksmith would sell you the blank at least if you brough the door in and dropped it on their counter.

Hell, they made decode and cut it for you on a professional machine for $25 bucks if that's worth something to you.

good luck, thanks for sharing your old lock,

Squelchtone

[Sinifar]

If it is an S & G 4140 - 4163 lock, it is a 7 lever lock, with 6 depths.

The tip to the throat cut is .924, and the blank width is .379, and the throat cut is .295 - width dependent on the horn of the lock.

Tip to first cut is .215, and it is .075 between cuts. Cuts are .075 wide each, my book says to use a .030 and .045 slotter together. Or you could use a standard S & G slotter (.055) and make it a bit wider.

0 - .377, 1- .337, 2- .297, 3- .257, 4- .217, 5- .177, 6- .137

If you get a blank, you can file the thing by working one lever at a time, watching the "window" where the fence on the bolt goes into the levers.

Sinifar

[68merc]

You guys are awesome. I have had this safe head for 30 years and have always wanted to do something with it. If I find used keys can I adjust the lock to fit the keys? I ask based on what I see in this picture.


wow, I didn't see the number 9 in the bottom till just now...

Thanks again.

Murray

[IndigoChild]

Yeah that looks like a diebold key to me. You should take it to a locksmith shop and have them cut a key to the wafers in there and be on your merry way. You can shuffle the tumblers however you want because this isnt a safe lock its a safe deposit box lock.

[68merc]

OK, I ordered blanks and found a safe tech that's not far from home. My plan is to take him the lock and blanks. After 30 years of moving this thing around I don't want to screw it up now.

[femurat]

Great! Can't wait to hear you put it back to use.

Cheers

[IndigoChild]

Oh yeah sorry if I got the brand wrong but the keys are USUALLY cross compatable. If not they will just use a little filing to fit haha. Could be a La Garde or a S&G But I only keep one keyblank in my van because it works on all of them. The biggest difference is the shape of the head and the spacing.

[MacGyver101]

If I find used keys can I adjust the lock to fit the keys?

Yes, you can. I couldn't see the change-key hole properly in the first set of photos but, from the interior photos, that looks like the S&G 4163... which can be rekeyed to work with other keys. It's most easily done with a change key (it fits into the L-shaped slots in the levers -- it would be quick work for a locksmith) but, if you're mechanically-inclined, you can manually adjust the levers to fit any properly-cut key.

[68merc]

well all done! I have 4 keys that open the lock. Thank you for your help. Now I have work to do. Any ideas on how i can use the safe lid?

[liverock]

While looking for information online I came across this site and saw the topic about an "old floor safe". I realize the post is a year old and the problem has already been solved. But others may still be interested or want to learn more. Here are pics of the entire unit including original keys, please view and leave your comments. http://my.inbox.com/photos/sailforsale/index.aspx