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Another "What padlock to use" question

Thinking of upgrading your door security? Getting a better deadbolt or padlock? Getting a new frame or better hinges? Not sure what brand or model to go with for your particular application? Need a recommendation? Feel free to ask for advice here!

Re: Another "What padlock to use" question

Postby fgarci03 » 20 May 2013 8:28

Well, in this case I don't believe so, because the guys who go there are poor.
What I can assume that will happen is they are going to try the regular breakings and fail, and are going to grab a sledgehammer and try again.


But yes, I share your opinion too
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
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Re: Another "What padlock to use" question

Postby ARF-GEF » 20 May 2013 8:53

Since there is no need of picking resistance I think a PL 362 would be decidedly an overkill. No doubt fantastic padlock, in fact what I mean that it is too much. It's a totally more than sufficient, but since you pay for the extreme picking resistance too it's wasteful.
PL 975 would be better but I think it is too much. Simply wasteful.
Also the PL 362 has thicker shackle than my finger. Will it fit?

And let's not even talk about the S&G 951 :lol: That is totally unnecessary and incredibly expensive :D Unless you plan on storing weaponry or drugs inside those boxes :D And at that level it's probably easier to open the box with a big axe so it's pointless.
Plus if your company ordered them from the US there would be high shipping cost and you would have to pay customs... It's around 30% here so for the 951 1400$ + 30% = 1820 $ (~1500€...)
So I think those abloys and S&G are not suitable in this particular case. They are simply too much and pointlessly expensive.

I think puck locks are better for this need, I believe they are more resistant to brute force attacks than traditional padlock designs.


The cheap option would be the following:
Now since picking resistance is so emphasized not an issue I would say look into top Master lock padlocks. They are really often dissed among picker, because they are easy to pick, but my experience is that they can have rather good brute-force resistance. Especially for their modest price. And they are very available (which is also an important point of view).

Master 6270,American 2000 (probably better pick resistance but who knows since Master bought them)
Another option would be master 6527, which is shrouded and can be asked with 7 pins...
Master M930XDLH has ball bearing stolid hardened steel body and boron shackle and only for 30$... Around 1/4 of the PL 975 and even less of the PL362.
But again those offer very low picking protection. If that's not a problem I think they are OK.

(Master 6270: Solid steel body and "High security, rekeyable 6-pin cylinder with spool pins is virtually impossible to pick" :lol: . anyway I think it's pretty resistant against brute force and it's really cheap like 40$...)


A very good midway would be:
ABUS makes excellent padlocks in the "Granit" line. 37/55, or it's shrouded version 37/60. Or one step higher is the 37/70 and the shrouded version: 37/80.
RK in the name means they are rekeyable. These Granit padlocks are much better than the Masters, both in physical resistance and lightyears ahead in picking resistance as well (same basic principle as Abloy locks but a little bit simpler).
Also generally better quality than Masters.Obviously a bit more expensive too.
Abloy are also very shiny and very flashy. Granits are dull black with a matt plastic protective layer which makes them look average.

But I think they are still significantly easier to get and in most of Europe than Abloy.
http://www.abus.com/eng/About-ABUS/ABUS-worldwide
I'm not sure but here you can either get it or order it at any lockie. (And cheaper too. Admittedly not as secure as the 362, but as a proud owner of a PL 362 I really wonder if there is a use for average people and average businesses where it's not an overkill...) I think they are only sensible for military / government / maybe banking use. Or if you can give me other examples I'm curious to hear:) I've been wondering about it for a while now.
They are usually pointless since the container they secure is miles less strong than the padlock itself.

If I were you or the head of business I would get one of the Abus Granits.
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Re: Another "What padlock to use" question

Postby ARF-GEF » 20 May 2013 8:58

Ah just read Evan's answer :

This could range from keeping the items in a bin located inside the stock room of the store and making appointments during business hours to transfer the items or obtaining a Conex Box (a.k.a. cargo container) to locate these items outside...

My personal opinion is that using an expensive high security lock on a dumpster is a foolish endeavor...


Plus 1 on that one.

But Since the decision is Fgraci's boss' there is not too much point in arguing. If he want a secure, but sensibly priced, available and not too flashy lock I'd go with the Abus Granit.
But carefully mention keeping the stuff inside once or so. The cargo container seems like a good idea, but if I were the manager I wouldn't want such an eyesore around my store.
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Re: Another "What padlock to use" question

Postby Evan » 20 May 2013 9:05

ARF-GEF wrote:But carefully mention keeping the stuff inside once or so. The cargo container seems like a good idea, but if I were the manager I wouldn't want such an eyesore around my store.


Conex containers used as supplemental "temporary" storage are so common in the United States, especially by the 'big box' retailers it is not something considered an eyesore... The present dumpster is definitely not located next to the store's customer entry, it is in some utility area most commonly located to the rear...

The Conex shell game is so common that companies like Walmart and Target even have policies for shuffling the containers around on site at least annually so that the "temporary" nature of their usage can not be challenged by the local AHJ... There are alarm systems which can be installed on Conex containers...

~~ Evan
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Re: Another "What padlock to use" question

Postby Squelchtone » 20 May 2013 9:16

What if for just one week you hired an overnight guard to sit in his security vehicle so that people get used to the fact that a person may or may not be there at night watching the property? CCTV camera mounted on sports store pointing at dumpster, a sign or two on the dumpster and building, and some lights may help.

Too bad you cannot do something messy like putting grease or paint or sticky glue all over the door handles or pouring some sticky goo or paint onto the items in the container. :twisted:
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Re: Another "What padlock to use" question

Postby fgarci03 » 20 May 2013 9:37

If it was up to me I would make crazu scaring dangerous pranks to those. When someone got hurt they would stop! What are they going to do? Complain that the stuff they stole was rigged?

Will the abus granit take a sledgehammer and stay cool?
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
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Re: Another "What padlock to use" question

Postby ARF-GEF » 20 May 2013 10:32

Well I obviously haven't tried, but I'm quite convinced it would.
You can find the infos here:
http://www.abus.com/eng/Security-at-Home/Padlocks/Granit

This one has a shackle with 6 tonnes pulling resistance so I believe it can handle a hammer.
http://www.abus.com/eng/Security-at-Home/Padlocks/Granit/GRANIT-37-55-37RK-55

This one has 8 tonnes resistance which is even higher.
http://www.abus.com/eng/Security-at-Home/Padlocks/Granit/GRANIT-37RK-70

If they break this one:
http://www.abus.com/eng/Security-at-Home/Padlocks/Granit/GRANIT-37RK-80
A PL 362 won't stop them either...
I'm not sure what the contaienr is like but it's most liekly easier to cut the side of the container open than to open these padlocks.

I believe all of the Granits I mentioned in my first post are adequate. Which one your boss chooses depends on the budget and on how paranoid he got :)
Personally, I would choose them. I believe they provide very high level of defence without the possible downsides of a PL 362 (price, availability, flashy appearance).


BTW mods: what do you think about moving the thread to European locks? I believe it is more closely related to that one than any other. But it's not my decision naturally. :)
I mean it is a question, but we quickly got into comparing and discussing European (or EU-available at lest) padlocks. :)
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Re: Another "What padlock to use" question

Postby fgarci03 » 20 May 2013 21:09

Thanks mate :mrgreen:
Now I wll continue my quest on local locksmiths to see prices!

ARF-GEF wrote:BTW mods: what do you think about moving the thread to European locks? I believe it is more closely related to that one than any other. But it's not my decision naturally. :)
I mean it is a question, but we quickly got into comparing and discussing European (or EU-available at lest) padlocks. :)

I was going to post it there, but decided to go on "Got Questions". But maybe it'd be a good idea :mrgreen:
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
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Re: Another "What padlock to use" question

Postby YouLuckyFox » 15 Jun 2013 23:58

Do you have a picture of the busted lock/s? I have seen a lot of different ways these are opened and could help you identify the method (by PM of course). If it is the shackle being attacked each time I would recommend buying a shrouded ABUS all steel. The shrouding distributes the force throughout the lock (somewhat) to prevent "levering" as well as the obvious restricting of access to the bolt. The hardened steel bolts do well against bolt cutters if they are the right diameter, but very few shackles stand up to "levering" this would help you against both. Please update the thread with what you decide on and what works (if you don't mind :D !) as I have a similar problem where I work.
Found a pretty good deal for one here:
http://compare.ebay.com/like/300767493763?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar
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Re: Another "What padlock to use" question

Postby globallockytoo » 16 Jun 2013 11:21

I couldnt see the pic, but a secure padlock that virtually no one will bypass (without picking) is Meroni Luccotto. Quite different and modern in its design, stainless steel, ball bearings, tubular key. about $80.

PM me if interested. I am the exclusive US distributor.
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Disclaimer: Do not pull tag off mattress. Not responsible for legal advice while laughing.
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Re: Another "What padlock to use" question

Postby ARF-GEF » 16 Jun 2013 12:22

I've googled Meroni Luttoco and this padlock came out.
http://www.meroniserrature.it/en/catalogo/scheda/121/3388/
Is that it?
Wow, it looks really cool! Fantastic design :)
Guess I have to start saving up for one of those too.... :(
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Re: Another "What padlock to use" question

Postby fgarci03 » 16 Jun 2013 17:54

Thanks for all the help, but they discarded it because of price and/or inability to have an invoice.

There is a company right here who sells Master Locks with the nº10 on security and warranty them, so when broke they are replaced.
Oh well... It's their call :roll:


Anyway I learned alot about these padlocks, so many thanks for all the help!
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
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Re: Another "What padlock to use" question

Postby globallockytoo » 16 Jun 2013 19:22

ARF-GEF wrote:I've googled Meroni Luttoco and this padlock came out.
http://www.meroniserrature.it/en/catalogo/scheda/121/3388/
Is that it?
Wow, it looks really cool! Fantastic design :)
Guess I have to start saving up for one of those too.... :(


Yup...that's it

I have a vid on my site that shows an application
One One was a race horse, one one won one race, one two was a racehorse, one two won one too.

Disclaimer: Do not pull tag off mattress. Not responsible for legal advice while laughing.
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Re: Another "What padlock to use" question

Postby keymaster1053 » 19 Jun 2013 2:51

fgarci03 wrote:Thanks for all the help, but they discarded it because of price and/or inability to have an invoice.

There is a company right here who sells Master Locks with the nº10 on security and warranty them, so when broke they are replaced.
Oh well... It's their call :roll:


Anyway I learned alot about these padlocks, so many thanks for all the help!

Hey Fgarci,
How about the S&G enviro? I don't know if the shackle will fit your hole (no pun intended) LOL, but they are quite intimidating looking and hold up well in the elements.
Jim.
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Re: Another "What padlock to use" question

Postby fgarci03 » 19 Jun 2013 5:42

Thanks Jim,

It doesn't fit. I've been looking at where the shackle goes and it's too small...
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
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