Recommendation for Cal-Royal mortise cylinder replacement

[Enchant]

Hello, lockpickers! Hoping I can get some help with a simple n00b question...

I just purchased an apartment with a commercial-style Cal-Royal mortise lock. I was going to rekey the 6-pin Schlage keyway cylinder in the lock, but found that a locksmith wanted $150 for that service which started me searching the Internet.

It looks to me like the cylinder on these locksets is designed to be easily replaced, and it is compatible with most manufacturers. So, I guess, I can upgrade to a higher security model for less than a rekey of the current one.

Am I crazy, or is this a simple job and a good idea? Is there a particular cylinder that would be a good buy and offer improved security for under $150? Are there any "gotchas" in ordering and installing a new cylinder? And finally, are there any specific sources online that you might recommend, or would it be better to try and find someone locally?

Thanks for taking the time to help!
E

[Raymond]

Howdy Enchant,
$150.00 is way too high a price to ask just to rekey one mortise cylinder. That might even be a little bit high for a high security lock cylinder with restricted keys. Any full service locksmith can sell you a standard new cylinder, brass metal instead of zamak, over the counter, with new keys, for less than $30.00.

There are only a couple of things to look for if replacing.
1. Length. The length must be very near the same as the original cylinder or it will not work at all if too short or you will have to add spacers if too long.
2. The tail piece should be very much the same design as your original so that it operates the internal mechanism of the lock properly. There can be some variation in this choice but only looking in to the mortised lockset can help with the choice.
3. To prevent bad guys from forcing the cylinder out too easily I would suggest adding a hardened collar instead of a spacer.

[Enchant]

Thanks Raymond!

I removed the cylinder this evening and was right about what an easy job it would be! Looks like it's about 1 1/4" deep and has a Cal-Royal "Clover Leaf" cam. The lockset has an escutcheon and the cylinder screws in flush, so I think that eliminates the need for a collar?



I would be interesting in hearing pickers' opinions on whether it's worth going up to a key-controlled, pick- and bump-resistant cylinder (Medeco maybe?) Finding the correct cam might be difficult, but if the mounting screws are consistent across brands I can use the one from the old cylinder.

For some context, this is a 20 minute fire rated door in an interior building hallway, and there are no windows at ground level.

[fgarci03]

I would be interesting in hearing pickers' opinions on whether it's worth going up to a key-controlled, pick- and bump-resistant cylinder (Medeco maybe?)

Don't live in America so I don't know prices. But I guess an Assa TWIN isn't very expensive. And I can tell you no one is going to pick that lock to enter your house (much harder than medeco)

[jeffmoss26]

Are you allowed to change the locks as part of your lease?

[dll932]

I would be interesting in hearing pickers' opinions on whether it's worth going up to a key-controlled, pick- and bump-resistant cylinder (Medeco maybe?)

Don't live in America so I don't know prices. But I guess an Assa TWIN isn't very expensive. And I can tell you no one is going to pick that lock to enter your house (much harder than medeco)

Nearly ANY "high security" cylinder will be good enough, IMO. Burglars these days tend to use feet or crowbars.

[Squelchtone]

, but found that a locksmith wanted $150 for that service

How did you find this locksmith? There is a trend in the USA of shady fly by night, runs business out of back of old Buick "locksmiths" who put many many ads in the phone book all leading to the same number, then some dude shows up and says $150 for the simplest of jobs. Or was this a local shop you walked into?

Find a real brick and mortal shop or a real mobile locksmith, dont use google search for "locksmith in my town" because the scammer locksmiths have already filled all the results with their phone numbers. shows like 20/20 and Niteline have done undercover hidden camera shows about these scammer locksmiths who say on the phone it will be $50, then show up and its suddenly $350.

Stay vigilant and stay informed.
Squelchtone

[bitbuster]

squelch is right.find a brick and mortar lock shop.these scammers can and do operate multiple "businesses" under multiple names.the news stations nationwide have a field day exposing these scams.

[Squelchtone]

squelch is right.find a brick and mortar lock shop.these scammers can and do operate multiple "businesses" under multiple names.the news stations nationwide have a field day exposing these scams.

I do want to mention, and only because someone here once called me on it, and I'm glad they did, that there are legit mobile locksmiths. One weekend a few summers ago, my friends went tubing down some rapids in upstate New York and of course they lost the keys to their car in the river. It was a new car, an SUV, with chip remote. They called a mobile locksmith, he showed up in the nicest Sprinter van ever, with more equipment on board than most brick and mortar shops have. He had everything in stock to decode the locks, originate a new key, program a new fob or the chip in the key head (I dont know which it was honestly) and it did cost them about $300 but otherwise they would be towing their car from the woods of New York State back to Massachusetts. He even had ability to accept credit card out in the woods, and when they came home they couldn't stop raving about how good this locksmith was, how professional, well equipped, and what a great job he did.

so props to all the mobile guys here, we know there's good ones out there, just like there are good brick and mortal shop locksmiths.

Squelchtone

[cledry]

Don't try looking for a high security cylinder with a Cal Royal cam. Instead look for one with the Corbin/Russwin cloverleaf cam. Most manufacturers only recognize the big names when they make their cam compatibility.

[Enchant]

Wow, thanks for all of the input everybody!

fgarci03: I will take a look at the Assa TWIN. A super quick Google search looks like they run about 100 bucks, so roughly the same as a Medeco or Abloy.

jeffmoss26: I own the unit.

dll932: I agree, but two thoughts: 1) the door is in an interior hallway, so kicking it is likely to generate a call to police. But if one was quiet and could pick/bump the lock fairly quickly it would be a lot less likely to draw attention. 2) the thing I'm most concerned about is key control, so people working or with temporary access couldn't go to the hardware store (literally across the street) and get the key copied in the time it took to walk over there.

Squelchtone and bitbuster: I got two quotes from two locksmiths with considerable positive feedback on Yelp. One was a B&M who claims to have been in business for >30 years (~$150 + keys) and the other was a mobile service (~$140). My world view is one where almost every contractor is either dishonest or incompetent (sorry working locksmiths of course this doesn't apply to you!), and since changing out the cylinder is well within my abilities (and most of the cost of the rekey would be the service visit) I'm glad to do it myself and upgrade the lock in the process.

cledry: Thanks for the tip. The Corbin/Russwin clover leaf looks quite similar to the cam on the current cylinder but not exactly so, but I will make sure to be explicit when I order the lock.

[Evan]

cledry: Thanks for the tip. The Corbin/Russwin clover leaf looks quite similar to the cam on the current cylinder but not exactly so, but I will make sure to be explicit when I order the lock.

You already have the cam you need for your lock, when you get your new cylinder just use the cam from your existing cylinder, unless you choose something high security which has non-standard cam screw locations... Always test the proper functioning of the lock case with the cylinder/cam before closing the door...

As another poster asked, do you have the authority to re-key this door, or is there a management right-to-access or fire department/AHJ master key in place ?

~~ Evan

[cledry]

cledry: Thanks for the tip. The Corbin/Russwin clover leaf looks quite similar to the cam on the current cylinder but not exactly so, but I will make sure to be explicit when I order the lock.

You already have the cam you need for your lock, when you get your new cylinder just use the cam from your existing cylinder, unless you choose something high security which has non-standard cam screw locations... Always test the proper functioning of the lock case with the cylinder/cam before closing the door...

As another poster asked, do you have the authority to re-key this door, or is there a management right-to-access or fire department/AHJ master key in place ?

~~ Evan

Even on regular cylinders there are times when cams have different screw spacings and cutouts for the back of the plug. Unless you are sure the old cam will work it is better to order a new cam with the new cylinder, they aren't very expensive.

[Enchant]

Lots of lawyering on this forum! As I already replied to jeffmoss26, this is a condominium which I own and have the right to rekey.

cledry: I agree; the various mortise cylinders I have inspected definitely do not seem to have standardized mounting holes for a cam. Hopefully the Corbin Russwin or Falcon will be close enough to work, otherwise I'm stuck with rekeying the current cylinder I guess.

Thanks for the advice!

[Evan]

Lots of lawyering on this forum! As I already replied to jeffmoss26, this is a condominium which I own and have the right to rekey.

I have too much experience with condos and know for a fact that 99% of condo owners either never read or cannot understand the documents to which they are bound to follow and obey as the owner of a unit, as each condo development has its own unique documents which in essence become a 4th/5th level of government which you must obey even though it is privately owned and operated...

Make sure that your condo is not part of a master key system for management or AHJ access... If you have to provide a key for AHJ emergency access and you don't do that for whatever reason there will come a time where you will come home to a destroyed door frame because your unit set off the alarms and you will pay out of pocket with your own money for the repairs...

~~ Evan