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SPP vs Rake for Security Pins

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

SPP vs Rake for Security Pins

Postby mechanical_nightmare » 4 Oct 2013 9:47

I came across this video on youtube which suggests that raking locks pinned with spools is better than SPP'ing it. This seems to somewhat contradict my experience picking spools, as humble as it is. Usually I run the S rake through it a couple of times and then start feeling each pin individually with a hook or half diamond, feeling the pins responses to the pressure and tension while trying to imagine its position inside the lock. Either that or I only SPP. Below is a link to the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VrOAKN5jSOg

What advice from the lockpicking pro's and locksmiths here? I am having trouble picking KALE Standard cylinders with 5 spools + 1 standard driver. The keyway is too restrictive for me for now.
If you do not manipulate the lock, then the lock will manipulate you
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Re: SPP vs Rake for Security Pins

Postby Luissen » 5 Oct 2013 11:06

I get lucky ocasionally with spools, but I'm not very experienced myself. I figure that more experienced pickers will know what to 'feel' for and will have their own tips and tricks
If it works, it ain't wrong! :wink: -GWiens2001
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Re: SPP vs Rake for Security Pins

Postby smokingman » 6 Oct 2013 8:44

Try SPP in reverse.
Push the pins up well past the shear line and use minimal tension ,
to catch them at shear on the way down, bypassing the trap caused by the top pins shape.
Always use minimal tension with spools anyway since the rotational force
of the plug is what make them bind up and give a false set.
Practice practice :)
What is the best way to educate the masses? ... " A television in every home."
What is the best way to control the masses? ... " A television in every room."
From "Charlie" AKA " Flowers for Algernon"
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Re: SPP vs Rake for Security Pins

Postby mechanical_nightmare » 7 Oct 2013 1:55

I appreciate the responses. I can pick Yale, İTO, Canaş, DMK spooled euro cylinders fairly easily but higher-tolerance locks with additional pins such as KALE and ABUS still defy me. Vachette and ABUS in particular tend to have difficult bitting, but time and effort will see to it that those locks too are defeated :D
If you do not manipulate the lock, then the lock will manipulate you
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Re: SPP vs Rake for Security Pins

Postby FarmerFreak » 7 Oct 2013 8:03

SPP all the way! IMO the only reason to reverse pick is if a mistake has been made and a pin was pushed too high. I'm at odds with the guy in the video, raking may get used to pick the lock to the false sets, but at that point SPP is the way to go (which is the exact opposite of the videos advice).
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Re: SPP vs Rake for Security Pins

Postby jedidove » 7 Oct 2013 11:44

In my experience, there isn't a single answer to this question. It's going to come down to the specifics of the lock and pinning. For some pinnings, especially with mastered systems (lots of valid opening combinations), a light touch and enough finessing with a bogota will pop the lock open and avoid the false sets altogether. On the other hand, there might be that one stubborn pin, with no chance of succumbing to the bogota's song, and you'll have to SPP it after raking it into a false set. And even still there will be other locks that throw you into false-set loops that require manual SPP attention to each stack, where fixing one false set screws up another. Generally speaking, I think this last category tends to be the kind that are tough to SPP but easier to rake (with the right touch), but again, each lock is a different beast and I don't think there is a silver bullet.

The kind where SPP is "easier" than raking tend to be those with exaggerated pinnings. A large part (but not all) of raking is simulating a number of key profiles, and with exaggerated pinnings the chances are that your rake is just not going to be able to simulate the proper profile no matter how you angle it. Sometimes, you'll get close, hit a false-set, and find that your rake is stuck in the lock due to a low-setting pin. Often, it'll be a real game to get the rake out without losing progress.
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