Which Lock?

[voltronforce]

Hi guys ,

I need to change the cilinder of my door and the choices are:

- DOM iX 6sr
- Evva ICS
- Evva 3ks
- Evva MCS

I would like to buy an Evva 3ks or mcs.

Provided that no lock is inviolable (this forum teaches us that it is only a matter of time ), in your opinion, which is the best choice?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

[Squelchtone]

I put this is the correct sub forum for you

3KS is pickable, get MCS if you can afford it.

[voltronforce]

I put this is the correct sub forum for you

3KS is pickable, get MCS if you can afford it.

The difference between 3ks and mcs is 50€.....the seller does not recommend the mcs because it often jams the mechanism of the rotors opening....

Are you of the same advice?

[ARF-GEF]

MCS should not jam. No lock should jam at all, that is an indication of some problem with that specific piece of lock.
I have an MCS, not on my door, but in my lock collection, and it works perfectly. The MCS are a good construction, they should work well.

The 3ks is a very good lock as well, but the MCS is in it's very own category on the very top. There is no known method to open it non destructively (apart from the key lol).
Look around at other sellers, it is kinda strange that a seller would say of his own lock that he does not recommend it. At least he is honest, but jamming is not normal from any lock...

A while ago I tried to collect a bunch of possible points to consider here, take a look:
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=57354

I agree with Squelchie, if you can afford it, go with the MCS, that is the best I can think of.
Locks are a long term investment usually, an MCS should serve you without any problem for a long time. Also consider that it's protecting all your valuables.

[MBI]

Yep. MCS.

One of the two best locks out there.

[ARF-GEF]

Yep. MCS.

One of the two best locks out there.

I know you like protec, so I think that's the other one you meant, but out of curiousity, what others do you think are among the other best locks out there?
I would vote in the Kaba Star, the drill and pull protected 3ks as well.
Though none are as ND entry proof as the MCS.

[fgarci03]

@voltronforce, although I agree with everything with everything that has been said (lol why wouldn't I? ) I will add some more confusion to the mix!
Any of these locks are secure enough for a house. Don't expect a highly trained lockpicker to rob your home (unless you really have something valuable, OMG!). The real threats are usually bypasses and destructive entry, which any of them, if installed properly, are able to resist for a while, unless the burglar wants to make a lot of noise.

With that said, my personall choice would be a lock I can actually pick, so if I happen to lose my keys, I don't have to ruin the door and/or lock to get in. Yes I would take months practicing everyday to pick a 3ks but... it IS possible. With an MCS? Not really!

I'm not saying you shouldn't get an MCS. It is my favourite between these locks. But I'm just giving you another way to look at things.


Me? I would go with the 3ks. If it's not asking too much, how much are you going to pay for these babies?

[l0ckcr4ck3r]

Hi Voltronforce, welcome to the forum!!

The advice you have have received already is spot on!! But i just wanted to ask what is "my door"? If its the door to your "high end jewelry business", then thats a different situation to the front door of your home. With your business, it will be about insurance and which lock is considered the best by your insurers… but all the ones you list are great locks. If its for your home, then anything more than the ICS is overkill. The likelihood of a burglar picking the lock to gain entry is so remote, its not worth thinking about. If it were me… I would go for the 3KS in either situation…. The MCS is currently a highly rated lock but its target markets are large corporate deployments and Institutions. The other thing to think about is the cost of additional keys. If its for your home… you may wanna give one to a friend/family or neighbor… so just factor that in as well. I don't know the cost of extra keys for your complete list… i just know the MCS is crazy price!!

good luck with whatever you choose!

[voltronforce]

Thank you all guys!
I try to respond to everyone!

Me? I would go with the 3ks. If it's not asking too much, how much are you going to pay for these babies?

The seller wants to 3ks € 400 and € 450 for the MCS (including defender system)....I know, in Italy the real thieves are the sellers!

Hi Voltronforce, welcome to the forum!!

The advice you have have received already is spot on!! But i just wanted to ask what is "my door"? If its the door to your "high end jewelry business", then thats a different situation to the front door of your home. With your business, it will be about insurance and which lock is considered the best by your insurers… but all the ones you list are great locks. If its for your home, then anything more than the ICS is overkill. The likelihood of a burglar picking the lock to gain entry is so remote, its not worth thinking about. If it were me… I would go for the 3KS in either situation…. The MCS is currently a highly rated lock but its target markets are large corporate deployments and Institutions. The other thing to think about is the cost of additional keys. If its for your home… you may wanna give one to a friend/family or neighbor… so just factor that in as well. I don't know the cost of extra keys for your complete list… i just know the MCS is crazy price!!

good luck with whatever you choose!

Hello l0ckcr4ck3r, the lock will be installed on the door of my new house (where the only things of value are the TV, my home theater and the cat .... the wife may be taken! ).
I agree on your observations, in fact the same seller asserts that for an "home door" just a Dom ix 6SR or an ICS is enought .... all locks are pickable (3ks included).
Rather, the seller tips the emphasis on the goodness of the defender and on the combination of a double bit lock which will be made in parallel to lock the mechanisms that will host the European cylinder.

I think that, given the prices (200€ Dom, 250€ ICS, 400 3ks, 450 mcs), you might as well take the MCS or point to the savings with the ICS.
However, established that the MSC is unpickable, on your experience:

1) Does the ICS offers roughly the same resistance to picking and drilling of 3ks?
2) How is the resistance offered by MCS to the drill?
3) I read that there are two versions of MCS (the first series is easily breakable), right?
4) Can you damage the MCS if put it in the bag with the phone?

p.s.: As you pointed out I never thought about the cost of key duplication.....(for the MCS will be huge)

[ARF-GEF]

First round:
https://securitysnobs.com/EVVA-MCS-Doub ... ofile.html
Reputable dealer, they shit to europe as well.
Now I got to go, but I hope that helps

[l0ckcr4ck3r]

they crap to europe as well.

Blahahahah… I'm guessing you meant Ship to Europe as well

@voltronforce Im trying to figure out what this "Defender System" is…. is this part of the main Lock/Handle assembly, rather than part of the cylinder?

The prices you mention…. I am really hoping this is for the Lock/Handle assembly AND the different Cylinders??

There should only be a price difference of about 100 euros between the ICS and MCS, for any given length of cylinder. I have to disagree with ARF-GEF, Security-Snobs are good, but are over priced, especially if they have to ship back to Europe… If you decide to buy an Evva, it will be made for you in Austria and bounce over to the US, only to be shipped back to italy… My advice is order your lock from Europe. I have used these guys and they were great:

http://www.schliessanlage.de/schliesszylinder/evva-mcs.html

I only really have in-depth experience with the MCS on your list… and probably, significantly more experience than most others on this forum. Yes... its a great lock in concept but the current design leaves a lot to be desired and is fairly weak to Destructive attacks. the only thing holding the core in the body is an M12 E-Clip, none of the locking parts actually prevent the core from being pulled out the front of the housing. To be honest, the older version of the lock has a much more secure secondary locking mechanism but i don't think you can order them anymore. It does have 2 small Anti-drill pins in the face of the lock… 2mm hardened steel… yeah they may hold up someone for a bit but use a big enough drill bit and they will be ripped out the front.
The 2 main destructive attacks you need to worry about are pulling the core and snapping the lock body.
The standard MCS is fairly good at resisting snapping but Evva do have an "ARS" variant with stronger Anti-snap features.
The current MCS is actually pretty poor against pulling but again, Evva do offer a "Vds" variant. Im not sure exactly whats in it, but its supposed to be for high security areas and is more "resistant to visible & Non visible attacks".. My guess is it also has a better set up on the back of the housing by the cam to resist pulling, as its not not available in the shortened body version. As far as i know Vds is some german Lock standard for how long the lock stands up to abuse or what it can withstand for destructive entry.
Unfortunately the Vds & ARS features are not available together on 1 lock…. go figure!!! you have to choose between them.

Can you damage the MCS with a phone… Im guessing you mean… Can you damage the key?
Simple answer is probably not. When you magnetize a Rare Earth Magnet, you need 5-10kV and 10-30kA!! Short of leaving your keys in an MRI, they will be just fine. Samarium Cobalt is brittle, so i guess you could crack the magnets if you abused them enough by throwing your keys around. As far as the key damaging other things like credit cards… i have not heard anything about that, but i guess it might be possible.

Bottom line… Yeah the MCS is a cool lock and is still unpickable…. But hell!! IF you are looking to spend this much on a lock, Buy a Dom Diamant, its way tougher than an MCS against destructive attacks. Sullus start selling them at 210 Euros!!! Forget all about "if something can be picked or not"… that just distracts you. Anyone one with the skills to pick a Diamant, probably won't want your TV or Cat

Hope that helps!

[voltronforce]

First round:
https://securitysnobs.com/EVVA-MCS-Doub ... ofile.html
Reputable dealer, they crap to europe as well.
Now I got to go, but I hope that helps

Thanks for the link, but I'm afraid that if I ask the seller of the armored door to install a cylinder purchased by me he will send me to f#ck!

Im trying to figure out what this "Defender System" is…. is this part of the main Lock/Handle assembly, rather than part of the cylinder?
The prices you mention…. I am really hoping this is for the Lock/Handle assembly AND the different Cylinders??

At this link you can watch what I mean for "Defender System" --> http://www.gruben.com/conus.html

The prices included the installation and the "Safety Case" which prevents the breakup of the cylinder through the use of a lever-shaped tube.

Certain that the MCS and the DOM Diamond are just horny!.....But the Diamond doesn't use the same concept of abus lock? (I've just seen a tool to break the locks abus).

[l0ckcr4ck3r]

ok, so that Defender system looks like it will protect the cylinder from a lot of abuse! I am guessing there is some plate in the front of it which rotates with the key. And you may be right… this plate might not be available in different shapes for keys like Abloy or the Diamant, so best stick to regular shaped keys. write down the total number of keys you think you may need and that will influence what decision you make. I think there are 12 copies of the front door keys floating around for my folks… by the time all the family get one and a couple of spares are left with neighbors, that all ads up to the cost!! Then the choice is really up to you. My gut feeling is the ix6 sr will work out cheapest on additional keys and its a great lock…. There is no more advice i can offer you really, good luck and you won't be disappointed with anything you choose off that list!

[ARF-GEF]

Hahahaha yeah I meant Security snobs ships to Europe as well.
I have written shi* with a T at the *, and it got auto-corrected as crap by the forum. lol

I think the locks you've been offered is very much overpriced. You should consider and think about of getting locks from other sources. I had good expereince with secnsnobs, schlieessanlage.de is also a good company and you can also directly deal with Evva!
In that case I would go with ICS. It's a nice key, a usable lock and people are much less prepared for it than for a Dom IX.
Key control is also better.

To answer your question: I agree wit hlcokcckracker, the MCS's big advantage is that it's impossible to open without destroying it. It is not focused on incredible resistance it's main selling point is that it all but guarantees that any break in will have a mark.
Evva locks are generally excellent quality, though DOM is not bad either.
ICS and 3ks also have different versions (VDS, and so on)
In your place I probably would not be able to afford and MCS with all the keys. Realistically thinking I would buy a 3ks the grube-shield should protect it well, but maybe I would be tempted by the VDS version of the 3ks as well.
If on a budget I would choose the ICS, I like the mechanism and the look of the key as well. But the Dom won't be a bad choice either. But I would try to get a 3ks.
Keep in mind though it's not wise to give keys to anyone. I am very careful about giving out keys to other people. Only for family and really very-very trusted long time friends.

There is a tool to break in to Diamond, but that tool is very rare, ahrd to get and expensive. Again the only sure defence about people getting in without a trace is the MCS, but generally that is an overkill (though a beautiful one! ).
A 3ks (or 3ks+ essentially the same lock, with very very minor almost cosmetic changes, but the + is the more recent version) is a nice lock as well. I only write 3ks becasue it's shorter, but actually Evva only makes 3ks+ now.

Most plates will let through an Abloy key, they aren't too thick, but not a Diamond key. But The dom Diamant is specifically designed so that it doesn't really need a shield, it can defend itself

Answering your questions:
ICS and 3ks have similar drilling protection. Both have a much more resistant VDS-version. Though the shield should protect well against drilling and core-pulling.
The previous versions of MCS are rather old I don't think you can buy then anywhere.
AFAIK there are not 2 but 3 versions of the MCS actually. But only 1 is made now.
No, not all locks are pickable, though only the MCS is what I know to be unpickable as of today.

seller tips the emphasis on the goodness of the defender and on the combination of a double bit lock which will be made in parallel to lock the mechanisms that will host the European cylinder.

That is a good point. Having a good door and defending the lock with a shield is very good way to improve security. But keep in mind that the door is not the only way in (windows and so on). There are many cheaper options to make your home a bit more secure. Don't mean to advertise another post from myself, but I made an attempt to bring together a few points about security and many other people given good insights here as well:
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=57384
And again an ICS or the Dom IX are both good locks, it's just that the 3ks is better (and the MCS is the best when it comes to resistance to non-destructive entry).
Good luck with finding a good lock, if you have any questions anywhere feel free to ask

[Mano71]

This is my 1st post here, so Hi everyone!
I've been reading all this with a lot of interest because in the building I live in (15 flats/neighbours), there has been many robberies in the past months. It kinda scares me because my wife is handicapped and is always in her room and in bed. It really worries me that someone should get in -by thinking there's no-one in- and eventually found her in her room.
After reading this, I think I'll go for a Evva MCS or a Dom Diamant (though this one is difficult to find over here in Spain).

However I have a question which might be silly, but provided that I'm far from being an expert, I should need it to get answered:
What if the MCS or Diamant lock gets the burglar stopped from getting inside my home but then he gets pissed off and puts inside the lock some instant glue or thread locker or something similar in order to "punish" me in a way. Would I be able to get in? What should I do in such situation?. Would a professional be able to sort this out? (My wife would be inside but she could not possibly go to the door because she can't move from her bed without my help).

I said it, this question might sound stupid, but it worries me.

Also, are there any "anti-vandal" gadgets to add on?

Thanks in advance for your help!