Business System Recommendation

[aj45]

I'm looking to totally re-key the small business I own. We have a lot of employee turn-over in some departments and have about 200 locks (all doors and a few pad-locks) with about 50 different keyings and one master. We currently have a Kwickset system and security is a joke. We had a robbery a few months ago and I think it was an employee we'd fired coming back to get even.

Here are the features I'm looking for (in order).

1. Hard to copy.
2. Able to be master keyed.
3. Easy to re-key individual locks in case of loss or employee changes.

It would also be incredibly nice to be able to give a supervisor of a department a key that opens all doors in the department, but not others.

A locksmith suggested a Corbin-Russwin interchangeable core system. Does that sound reasonable?

[ARF-GEF]

Are you located in the US?
From 1-10 what would be the security needed by you (1 being kwickset and 10 being the level jewellers need)?
Consider that the prices will rise according to your needs unfortunately. I'm not sure what is your budget, and if you want to share that info, but if you told us around what price range should we be thinking about, that would be a useful information.

Easy to re-key individual locks in case of loss or employee changes.

I'm thinking SFIC / LFIC there.

[keysman]

…. We currently have a Kwickset system and security is a joke. We had a robbery a few months ago and I think it was an employee we'd fired coming back to get even.
Here are the features I'm looking for (in order).
1. Hard to copy.
2. Able to be master keyed.
3. Easy to re-key individual locks in case of loss or employee changes.
It would also be incredibly nice to be able to give a supervisor of a department a key that opens all doors in the department, but not others.
A locksmith suggested a Corbin-Russwin interchangeable core system. Does that sound reasonable?

As ARF-GEF suggested , the overall price will increase as the level of security/ quality of the lock increases.

The features you are looking for are the main selling point of interchangeable cores.
IC can be purchased in advance , easily changed by non locksmiths, depending on your system unauthorized keys can be difficult to nearly impossible to obtain.
Changed out locks can be rekeyed during normal working hours or by mail order , lowering the long term cost of your system, as daytime and emergency service calls are minimized.
Most major lock manufacturers carry a full line of SFIC (Small Format Interchangeable Core ) locks, and LFIC ( Large Format Interchangeable Core) for their specific brand
This site is frequented by many working locksmiths. Please fill in you location and we can give you more specific information.
A good overview of SFIC can be found here :
http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/sfic/

[aj45]

I have not gotten a quote yet, but we budgeted for 100,000. There are 200 locks at 500 bucks each... That sound right?

[MBI]

I have not gotten a quote yet, but we budgeted for 100,000. There are 200 locks at 500 bucks each... That sound right?

In that kind of budget range, I'd look not only consider an SFIC or LFIC system being sure to get a restricted keyway, but I'd also look at high security locks for additional protection against other forums of surreptitious entry.
Something like these:
https://securitysnobs.com/Abloy-Protec2 ... inder.html
https://securitysnobs.com/Abloy-Protec2 ... inder.html

At about a hundred bucks a core for either of the above cylinders, once you add in the cost of keys and new door hardware to accomodate LFIC cylinders, that should be doable in your price range.

Depending on how much the new door hardware costs you may even have enough money left over to buy extra cylinders to keep on hand, already keyed up on a new masterkey system for a quick change of cylinders if a disgruntled employee leaves and keeps his keys. Then you don't have to be in a rush when you take the original cylinders you removed, and get them rekeyed at your convenience for the next time something like that happens.

[Squelchtone]

meh on the Corbin Russwin.. yeah, they'll last 50 years but.. they're so institutional. I think every high school in New England has Russwin, Corbin, or Corbin Russwin, to me that's their market. I donno, for a business setting, its just my opinion that BEST, BEST/KABA Peaks, Sargent, Yale, Arrow, Falcon, or Marks would do better in the changing out cores if someone is fired or keys are lost. For key control, some of the companies I listed have restricted keyways/profiles that your local hardware store cannot copy, or you can get into the well known high security brands and models such as Schlage Primus, Medeco Biaxial or M3, ASSA Twin and I actually have to say (and people are going to faint when they read this), but I wouldn't recommend Abloy Protec for this. Question to the fellas: Do they make Abloy IC core? is that even a thing? (edit: ok, I clicked MBI's link.. it's cool that they actually have IC core these days.. blows my mind at the selection, but I still wouldn't choose Abloy Protec for this project, not sure why, just doesn't feel right)

The $500 per door, is this include the mortised lockset and a SFIC/LFIC mortise cylinder, or just a lever handleset with an IC core in the handle?

Good luck with your project,
Squelchtone

[MBI]

For key control, some of the companies I listed have restricted keyways/profiles that your local hardware store cannot copy, or you can get into the well known high security brands and models such as Schlage Primus, Medeco Biaxial or M3, ASSA Twin...

Bilock is another brand you can consider, they make a removable core lock that can be retrofit into their regular housings:
https://securitysnobs.com/BiLock/
But I'd still get the Abloy over the Bilock. Not just because it's my personal preference, it's also cheaper and in my opinion more secure.

If you choose against the Abloy (why would you not pick Abloy??? ), I'd look at the ASSA over the other brands Squelchtone mentioned. I think it's more secure than the Medeco and I've spoken to several locksmiths who curse Primus systems because of maintenance issues due to wear in high traffic locks making the finger pins seize up the lock. For example, I know in the local school district they went with Primus as their choice of locks, but service calls became such a frequent problem that whenever a Primus lock went down, instead of fixing it they just started replacing it with a regular Schlage SC4 keyway, low security lock as it can use the same keys but lacks the side pins and extra security features.

[aj45]

I see a hatred for Corbin, are they actually that bad?

[MBI]

I see a hatred for Corbin, are they actually that bad?

I don't think they're bad, they're just a run-of-the-mill commercial-grade lock. Better than the stuff you'll find at Home Depot, like your Kwiksets, but not the best either. I imagine you'll find some locksmiths with more experience than me who would disagree, particularly those who carry that brand. It's just a matter of opinion.

However, if you can afford high security, I'd get high security, like one of the companies Squelch and I mentioned. You'd be better off in both the short run and the long run, especially if you're already having theft problems. You really do get some value out of that extra money you'd be spending, over a regular commercial-grade lock.

[Squelchtone]

I see a hatred for Corbin, are they actually that bad?

lol, I dont think me saying 'meh' to Corbin means I hate them.. I hate people who litter, I hate people who don't use turn signals, but Corbin, nah I don't hate them, it's just not the right fit for your office install.

The only Corbin you should be looking at if you're interested for Corbin is their high security solution called: Pyramid : http://www.corbinrusswin.com/en/site/co ... tId=962545

[ARF-GEF]

I have my dad's business masterkeyed for EVVA 3ks, I love that lock.
Not sure if they have a US distributor and if they offer SFIC or LFIC systems.
If I had a choice I would choose that again.

If I had a choice between Bilock and abloy, not sure, but I too would probably go with Bilock. I know, heresy, heresy, get the pitchforks
Abloy is not bad, but like Squelchie, I just don't like them that much. Abloy is too big, buying all the companies, and they are killing innovation.
Plus I just got somewhat disappointed with Abloy lately, some of their factory assemled locks are getting stuck (happened 2 times in thet 2 months...).

AAand I just got like 20 faulty(!) blanks from them... It wasn't jsut a different profile, the keys were too thick...
They did replace them after some hassle, but ... We are not amused.

[Squelchtone]

Remember that Abloy does not equal ASSA Abloy Group, which is their parent company who owns over 40 other lock and door hardware companies.

Shame to hear you had trouble with the stuck locks or the keys not being to spec.

Squelchtone

[GWiens2001]

AAand I just got like 20 faulty(!) blanks from them... It wasn't jsut a different profile, the keys were too thick...

Have some Schlage SC1 blanks (15 of them) on which the wards are not milled deep enough - they won't fit into the lock, either. Was not paying attention when I cut one and could not believe that I had misidentified a Schlage C keyway. Turns out I didn't.







Don't know how I missed that when grabbing one to put into my key machine!

Gordon

[ARF-GEF]

, you have a key machine at home! Cool

[GWiens2001]

HPC Speedex. Manual duplicator. Also have several sets of D&S keys courtesy of MrWizard.

Gordon