Good deadbolt

[Listerine]

So I just moved into a new house and was thinking about replacing or re-keying the locks. I typed in some keywords on my search engine and ended up here! I was wondering if I could get some opinions on some locks and what to do. I figured the best place to look for advice would be at a forum of people who can actually pick locks.

I am looking for a single and double cylinder deadbolt locks to replace the front and back doors, and a knob lock to replace the one in the garage. I live in a nice neighborhood in the US that is generally very quiet and safe; however, it has some trees and shade surrounding the house, and as such I'd like to get a good quality lock. I'm willing to pay for a good lock, but since I've never bought a house before I don't know what price point I should be looking at. That being said, the price of a lock is probably small beans anyways compared to the price of a house so it's not a huge concern.

The current locks installed is a Schlage lock, but I don't know how to recognize the specific version of the lock, so I am not sure whether it's a low or high end model. However, it seems like the current opinion of people on this site seem to think Schlage locks aren't that good. So I'm maybe thinking of two different scenarios:
1.) Buying a new lock, like an Abloy Protec 2
2.) Taking the lock out and just replacing the cylinder to a higher quality one, like what this guy did: http://www.bayarealocks.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=167 Is doing this process pretty simple? Also if I replace the cylinder am I all set? Do I need to change out any other things?

I'm also considering buying some kind of double door reinforcement kit as well.

It looks like I can buy locks from securitysnobs.com and bayarealocks.com but anyone else has any other recommendations? Should I go talk to a locksmith instead? Thanks for the help!

[HerrMannelig]

So I just moved into a new house and was thinking about replacing or re-keying the locks. I typed in some keywords on my search engine and ended up here! I was wondering if I could get some opinions on some locks and what to do. I figured the best place to look for advice would be at a forum of people who can actually pick locks.

Greetings.

I am looking for a single and double cylinder deadbolt locks to replace the front and back doors, and a knob lock to replace the one in the garage. I live in a nice neighborhood in the US that is generally very quiet and safe; however, it has some trees and shade surrounding the house, and as such I'd like to get a good quality lock. I'm willing to pay for a good lock, but since I've never bought a house before I don't know what price point I should be looking at. That being said, the price of a lock is probably small beans anyways compared to the price of a house so it's not a huge concern.

The weak areas are usually in the door frame, and then in the windows. If it is a nice neighborhood, then you probably don't need an expensive security solution.

The current locks installed is a Schlage lock, but I don't know how to recognize the specific version of the lock, so I am not sure whether it's a low or high end model. However, it seems like the current opinion of people on this site seem to think Schlage locks aren't that good. So I'm maybe thinking of two different scenarios:
1.) Buying a new lock, like an Abloy Protec 2
2.) Taking the lock out and just replacing the cylinder to a higher quality one, like what this guy did: Is doing this process pretty simple? Also if I replace the cylinder am I all set? Do I need to change out any other things?

I didn't follow the link, but I'm familiar with replacing locks. Remember, lock pickers have a lock picker perspective. Criminals are generally not lock pickers. Schlages are not bad...it all depends on what one expects from the lock.

Getting an Abloy Protec2 or an EVVA MCS would make sense from the "get a lock you can be sure won't be picked", but it doesn't make sense from a security standpoint for most people. If you are going to put such expensive locks on your doors, then your doors and windows should be reinforced to be equally secure.

Remember, those locks can cost quite a bit per unit, and replacing all the locks would be very expensive, with probably no added security, and it would make getting new keys more difficult.

It would also scream out "hey look! someone with lots of extra money really doesn't want you to come in here...".

I'm also considering buying some kind of double door reinforcement kit as well.

It looks like I can buy locks from securitysnobs.com but anyone else has any other recommendations? Should I go talk to a locksmith instead? Thanks for the help!

I would recommend you talk to a locksmith, as implementing your own security can be difficult without prior knowledge. I would recommend talking to a locksmith and consider your actual security needs and budget.

Lock manipulation is rare for crime, so realistically, you can be confident with a good lock which doesn't strain your budget.

[Squelchtone]

One good thing about spending extra on a lock is key control. Many of the "high security" solutions offer key blanks that are dealer and factory controlled, so if you have a room mate or ex-gf or plumber who has access to a Schlage for example, they can go to the corner hardware store and make a copy and then give you back your key and come back later if they feel like it. So although the first reply is correct is saying that the lock itself will not stop a burglar, because a pine framed door can be kicked in easily unless you reinforce the frame, strike plate, hinges, etc, the higher end locks with key control at least offer you some piece of mind that you are the only one with keys, or you at least know how many keys to your system are in circulation.

Another bonus to this is that some of these keys and blanks are pretty hard to find, so the local bad guys who have found out about bump keys will probably not have a bump key for which ever higher end solution you choose.

Dennis at Bay Area Locks is a good guy by the way, so if that's where you live, it's a good place to walk in and have a conversation about your security needs.

good luck with your project,
Squelchtone

[cledry]

I would stay away from the Protec, not that it isn't a very good lock but it is overkill and not easy to service for most locksmiths. This week i have put on a couple of deadbolts for people like you. One guy was down from NY and paranoid as hell. He wanted a Medeco DB and a Medeco knob. He had just had an alarm, security cameras and security lights installed was getting roll down shutters and or 3M film on his windows and wouldn't budge on wanting Medeco. I did manage to talk him out of a Medeco knob and install a passage knob instead.

Next customer asked our advice and we ended up using a Grade 2 deadbolt with a restricted keyway, loaded with spool pins and anti-bump kit. The reason being most crooks don't pick locks. Occasionally people will bump locks but a restricted keyway makes less likely that can happen. The majority of crooks kick in doors or break windows or sliding doors.

[MBI]

...So I'm maybe thinking of two different scenarios:
1.) Buying a new lock, like an Abloy Protec 2
2.) Taking the lock out and just replacing the cylinder to a higher quality one, like what this guy did: http://www.bayarealocks.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=167 Is doing this process pretty simple? Also if I replace the cylinder am I all set? Do I need to change out any other things?

I'm also considering buying some kind of double door reinforcement kit as well.

It looks like I can buy locks from securitysnobs.com and bayarealocks.com but anyone else has any other recommendations?

I bought Abloy Protec 2 locks for my home from Security Snobs,
https://securitysnobs.com/Abloy-Protec2 ... dbolt.html
along with door armor.
https://securitysnobs.com/Door-Reinforcement/

I wouldn't recommend buying just a new Abloy cylinder and retrofitting your existing deadbolt, even though that may be possible depending on what model locks you currently have. I'd get a whole new Abloy deadbolt. In addition to the cylinder itself being much more secure, every part of Abloy deadbolts are just much tougher than regular household locks: the bolt, the rose (tapered part around the exterior deadbolt), a hardened steel face on the front of the lock, a reinforcing "cage" that surrounds the moving parts of the bolt inside the door, a steel pocket that the bolt slides into in the frame when locked... all the parts. They will last MUCH longer than any lock you buy at a home improvement store, and are MUCH more resistant to many types of surreptitious and forced entry if properly installed. It's worth the extra money to buy the full deadbolt.

Also, Abloy locks are very reliable and long lasting. If you install one, by the time your home is wearing out and ready to be torn down and rebuilt, your lock probably still has decades of life left in it. It's a different mechanism that simply does not suffer as much wear on the internal parts as common pin tumbler locks do, and Abloy locks are much less likely to need servicing. While any mechanical device has the potential to malfunction and/or wear out, the disc detainer mechanism in Abloy locks has proven itself to be one of the most robust lock types available. I have experience in this area upon which to base my opinion, but it is still just that: an opinion. There are other good locks out there, but this is the one I bank on for my own personal security.

Now, here's the disclaimer: I know the guy who runs Security Snobs, he actually frequents this forum. So my recommendation carries some bias. However, I also know he researches every product he carries and only sells things he feels are quality products which he can feel good about recommending to someone. He has information pages on the site with very frank recommendations for security, so whether or not you buy from him, there is some good information there to help you make your decision.
https://securitysnobs.com/Information-Pages.html
He does not pull punches in saying what he thinks is good and what isn't. His words there have annoyed more than one lock manufacturer out there in the world.

Even though the folks on this lock forum are a bit more security minded than the general public, some here have said that what I put on my house is overkill, but having these good locks gives my family a lot of peace of mind. Leaving aside the house itself and the contents, my family is worth that level of protection.

[HerrMannelig]

Even though the folks on this lock forum are a bit more security minded than the general public, some here have said that what I put on my house is overkill, but having these good locks gives my family a lot of peace of mind. Leaving aside the house itself and the contents, my family is worth that level of protection.

There's no kill like overkill.

To be fair, for those who know what they are doing, one can make any choice they want. One can do what you have done, for you and your family, or one can do what I have done for myself (I think in terms of keeping people out of my apartment security, I have done the very least, having the cheapest old Kwikset locks and I do not lock my door). It is all about the choices made by individuals in particular circumstances. (Note, I do not have a family, expensive things, nor do I live in an area where burglary is common at all).

I noticed though that those not into security in anyway, look for absolutes. I think this is a waste, because it is not security. You see it often on bike locks, where a bike lock is being cut or picked, and someone asks "what lock cannot be cut/picked". Then they get disillusioned that there is no magic lock and think locks don't matter. That misses the point of security, and while going for the best of the best will give one what those products have to offer, it skips over the reality of security and the big picture.

This is common in any area where people without knowledge do not seek knowledge, but still want the "best". Like the people indiscriminately asking for the "best" (or "fastest") CPU in computers I build, without understanding how specifications relate to performance according to their computing needs.

It usually results in a waste of money with no added benefit.

Also, putting a $250 deadbolt on a door doesn't make sense if it doesn't come with the whole package, with the proper door, door frame, windows, and all other doors equally secure, including garage doors and back doors.

Then, controlling the keys is important, because if someone is going to break into that house, they are going to find the weak point, and it doesn't make sense to have a padlock with the best cylinder, hardest thickest shackle, but having it bypassed.

So it isn't just a matter of getting a good deadlbolt, but raising up every aspect of home security to the level of that one aspect of security, otherwise, it is completely wasted. It is a diamond superglued to a lugnut and called a diamond ring.

That is why I think the OP needs the advice of a professional to examine the property and make recommendations ("Also if I replace the cylinder am I all set? Do I need to change out any other things?").

Burglars do not care about locks; they care about what is past them. Being lock centric in one's thinking is not thinking like a burglar.

Of course, if people just want to have the best in select areas, that is fine, but they should understand the security implications.

Also if I replace the cylinder am I all set? Do I need to change out any other things?

I'm also considering buying some kind of double door reinforcement kit as well.

What I wrote above may give more thoughts on these questions, but it looks like you are thinking backwards. Lock manipulation is the rarest form of entry (probably), and you'd be better off reinforcing the doors and windows and creating layers of security, while keeping the same lock you have, than putting in the best lock, and maybe considering reinforcing the rest.

[Squelchtone]

Don't forget, some of the members here are professionals, and since we don't stand to make a buck like a local locksmith might, we will give a broader and more honest answer than someone trying to push a particular system or brand.

I've seen the arguement here before in the 'what lock should I buy threads' that unless you build your house of of brick and have a steel frame door and barbed wire and gun turrents that getting an expensive deadbolt is pointless.

I think any step one makes to improve their personal or family security is a step in the right direction.

As mentioned so many times here in the past, security is best approached in layers, like the layers of an onion. Perhaps because of our tips, the OP won't just get a nicer deadbolt, perhaps they will get better hinges, or reinforce their strike plate, or get film on any ground level windows or doors with glass panes. The reality is that the bad guys will get into the house that is easiest. If they can't kick or drill your door in a minute or so they will probably move onto to your next door neighbor who probably has a big box store lock installed on their house, or better yet, doesn't even have a deadbolt, or just plain leaves their door unlocked because it's a safe neighborhood.

OP: Look into things like Door Jamb Armor, and look into removing the 3/4 inch brass screws from your hinges and strike box and install 3 inch deck screws. If you can pop the inner frame off your door, make sure there isnt a big air gap from the pine frame to the building's wall studs, if there is fill it with wood, so the longer screws have something solid to bite into. There are metal wraps that can be installed at this point on the frame and on the door around the locks as well, so that a door and frame do not splinter if someone with a size 12 boot tries a kick attack.

I think the point is to slow them down and frustrate an attacker long enough so they move on, or a neighbor is alerted, etc.

If you are on a budget and cant make your home a fortress in one shot, go on ebay and get the ADT alarm yard sign and 4 decals, the bad guys wont be able to tell if you really have an alarm or not, but that yard sign and those decals on your front and back door and a side window or garage door sure look official.

At a minimum, rekey your current Schlage locks so that past owners, friends, contractors, neighbors cannot snoop around if that should actually happen. At least you can sleep well at night knowing some creeper isnt going through your stuff. Then worry about real burglars as time and budget allow.

Squelchtone

[cledry]

Real world situation time. You have your Protec installed and your house is protected on all windows etc. You have the knob as well with the Protec. Now you have accidentally locked the knob as you went out to have a smoke. That's why we recommend passage knobs when you are installing a high security system. We've actually replaced knobs that are already installed with passage locks just for this reason; it happens.

Another real world situation. Your key is missing and you need to rekey the locks right now. Is there a locksmith in your town that can offer 24/7 service that works on these locks. Security Snobs can possibly let you know if there is someone in your area that services a particular brand.

This is why I recommend talking to a local well-established locksmith that can talk to you about such things rather than relying on hobbyists. Yes, they know their locks and picking but they don't have as much experience as your local locksmith when it comes to what works and what doesn't.

Putting frame armor on a door is not simply screwing it in place. If you do your frame will warp and possibly break.

[HerrMannelig]

I think any step one makes to improve their personal or family security is a step in the right direction.

But it has to actually improve security, not feelings of security. I think increasing feelings of security makes one less secure overall.

In my own experience, the person most likely to break into one's house is oneself, due to locking oneself out. In my family, this has been done several times over the years. I got into my home when I was 13 without a key. A parent with my sibling got into my sibling's house on multiple occasions (within a short period of time...quite a comical story, but I'm sparing the details) without a key. On these occasions, it was done in daylight, with no hindrance. In my case, I knew there were witnesses who do not know me (people doing road work). If one does it oneself, one may realize just how easy it is in a typical residential situation.

That is the reality of a locked door. If someone not into locks wants to get in, the lock itself is ignored completely as an "I do not have a key so that is useless" situation. That is why I think upgrading the lock will do little or nothing, and why upgrading the door frame and windows would do something.

If one can get into one's own house without a key, then any lock will work just as well as the next one so might as well get the one which is the cheapest in terms of money and effort.

Making a house secure from the most common ways of illicit entry requires a lot of work and a big budget, but deterring people from trying is a lot easier and more effective. Most people are deterred by a locked lock regardless of what kind it is, so one has to deter people from the rest of the building which a burglar probably planned on attacking in the first place (due to the prevalence of locks on doors).

[Listerine]

Thanks for all the replies so far. I really do appreciate it. Since I've never owned a house before it's all new to me. I was thinking that since I was in a quiet neighborhood people might be more apt to try and pick locks but I suppose that's not the case.

[MBI]

Thanks for all the replies so far. I really do appreciate it. Since I've never owned a house before it's all new to me. I was thinking that since I was in a quiet neighborhood people might be more apt to try and pick locks but I suppose that's not the case.

Most burglars enter through an unlocked or improperly locked door or window, or break something to get in. Burglars picking locks is rare, but it does happen. Bumping locks is probably more common, but there are no good stats for it. I suspect a lot of burglaries that are attributed to them entering an unlocked door, may in fact be bumping the lock.

As stated by others here, layer your security. A good quality lock, with good reinforcing of the frame is important. Kicking in the door is probably more likely than picking or bumping the lock. An alarm system, or at least signs and stickers saying you have an alarm can be a very good deterrent. I'd suggest adding a secondary lock on all windows. Depending on the type of window, adding an extra lock can be as simple as buying a one dollar clamp to attach to the window sill next to the window, which needs to be removed in order to open it. If you have a sliding glass door, DEFINITELY add an auxiliary lock. Security snobs has those too, but even just a dowel laid in the track is better than nothing.

Security film on any windows that are accessible from ground level is a good idea. Even if the glass is broken, the film basically glues it all together in one piece so it stays in the frame and they have to batter it quite a lot to knock the entire pane out of the frame in order to get in. If you have a sliding glass door, as previously mentioned, I'd definitely put security film on that glass.

All these things are delaying tactics. Things that make it take longer, make more noise, and in general just be more of a hassle to get in. The harder you make it for them to get in, the more likely they are to go elsewhere. No security measure is guaranteed, but the more you use, the better your odds.