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Differences Between Old and New American 5200 Padlocks

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

Differences Between Old and New American 5200 Padlocks

Postby GWiens2001 » 12 Feb 2014 8:55

Difference between old and new American 5200

Seen a number of people asking again about the difference between the old and new American 5200 padlock.   There are a few differences.   Received two with cut shackles recently, and decided while replacing the shackles and making keys, would show the internal differences. 

Here are the two locks side-by-side. On the left is the old-school lock, and on the right, the new kid on the block. 

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In this picture, you can see inside the lock bodies.  Both locks are in the 'locked' position.  The cams are oriented 90 degrees from each other!  Old school lock's cam is aligned vertically, new style is aligned horizontally.

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The keyways are different as well.  

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The old style uses an AM3 blank, while the new one uses an M17 blank. The top blank is the new style, the bottom is the old style.  If you are trying to buy one on eBay, look at pictures of the keys... The shape of the key bow (where you hold the key) is different!

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The back side of the lock cylinders, so you can see the orientation difference.  These locks are picked and in the 'unlocked' position - opposite of the above pictures.

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Old style lock is disassembled with a c-clip on the back, and the shell is brass.

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New style lock shell is a cheap, soft, brittle metal, and the plug is retained with two crimps.

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To open the crimps, use a small flat screwdriver and slide it into the keyway...

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And using the keyway for leverage, pry the crimp outwards.  Recommend you do this in three stages so it looks nice and does not tear the metal.

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Turn the plug so the keyway faces the other side...

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And repeat to open the other crimp.

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Now the plug can be pressed out.  You can use a plug follower, but I want to pull the drivers and pins for pictures.

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And the pins - where the picking magic happens.

Old hotness.  Serrated driver pin, spoorated spool driver pins.  Heck, even the key pins are serrated.

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New and busted. One lame BumpStop driver pin.  All other pins are b.o.r.i.n.g.

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The bump stop pin is larger in diameter than the other pins, so the holes for the pin channels in the bible are larger in diameter.  The pin channels in the plug are normal diameter, so the BumpStop pin will not fit fully into the plug - only the tapered and angled end will go in.

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The BumpStop pin will fit into any pin chamber in the bible, but it is recommended not to put it into the first pin chamber, as it makes it obvious where it is located. Also, a 1 or 2 key pin is recommended for use on the chamber with the BumpStop driver pin, as that will allow the gap between the key pin and driver pin that is needed for the bump protection to work.

There you have the differences of which I am aware.  Old ones, just by looking at the pins, are more of a challenge to pick.

Gordon 
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Re: Differences Between Old and New American 5200 Padlocks

Postby smokingman » 12 Feb 2014 10:50

Thanks Gordon , well done as always. :)
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What is the best way to control the masses? ... " A television in every room."
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Re: Differences Between Old and New American 5200 Padlocks

Postby l0ckcr4ck3r » 12 Feb 2014 18:43

Great write up Gordon! I recently picked up a Master/American followers which had a flat surface running along it. I assumed the flat was just for the Master locks but is it use on the New american cores as well for the crimped area??
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Re: Differences Between Old and New American 5200 Padlocks

Postby GWiens2001 » 12 Feb 2014 19:27

The flat area (if you are referring to the stepped section on one end) is to fit over the actuator on the end of the plug.

Gordon
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Re: Differences Between Old and New American 5200 Padlocks

Postby l0ckcr4ck3r » 12 Feb 2014 20:12

The flat runs the full length.... sorry, bit blurry. It was advertised as a Master/American follower, guess cause of the diameter. I don't own any ReKeyable Masters so I'm not sure why its there.

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Re: Differences Between Old and New American 5200 Padlocks

Postby GWiens2001 » 12 Feb 2014 20:36

Are there two flats? There are two crimps. Inquiring minds want to know! :)

Gordon
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Re: Differences Between Old and New American 5200 Padlocks

Postby l0ckcr4ck3r » 12 Feb 2014 21:57

There are 2 very slight flats on the sides of it but i put them down to a crap Mazak casting!! Like you say... id like to know what its all about.

One end has been hollowed out about half way down and had the step for the end of the core... the other has a V shape in it, probably to make pining easier....

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Re: Differences Between Old and New American 5200 Padlocks

Postby Onz » 13 Feb 2014 2:12

GWiens2001 wrote:Old hotness.  Serrated driver pin, spoorated spool driver pins.  Heck, even the key pins are serrated.

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Those are some crazy pins! heck that would be hard, How long will that take you to pick it Gordon?
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Re: Differences Between Old and New American 5200 Padlocks

Postby GWiens2001 » 13 Feb 2014 8:03

Usually 1 to 1 1/2 minutes if they are old and grungy like the older of these two locks were. New and clean, under a minute. There are some people here who go through them faster than my son goes through jelly beans!

Gordon
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Re: Differences Between Old and New American 5200 Padlocks

Postby Onz » 13 Feb 2014 15:22

that it's fast Gordon, Thanks for that reply.
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Re: Differences Between Old and New American 5200 Padlocks

Postby Rusty_Shackleford » 13 Feb 2014 20:24

Bosnianbill did a video a whole back on the lock changes, here. The only "advantage" is the m17 keyway, which is a PITA to tension compared to the AM3 keyways.
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Re: Differences Between Old and New American 5200 Padlocks

Postby GWiens2001 » 13 Feb 2014 20:27

TOK tensioning is the way to go with either keyway. Tensions nice and evenly, once you get used to keeping it in place.

Gordon
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Re: Differences Between Old and New American 5200 Padlocks

Postby nsquidc » 13 Feb 2014 21:22

this is a truly fantastic post, especially on how to tell locks apart on eBay. many, many thanks.
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Re: Differences Between Old and New American 5200 Padlocks

Postby KPick » 13 Feb 2014 22:10

Awesome post bro. I love it. Detailed and educating. The keyway change is different. I can always recognize an american lock by the 90 degree angles in the lock keyway. But this is an upgrade. Thanks for the upgrade. :mrgreen:
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Re: Differences Between Old and New American 5200 Padlocks

Postby nsquidc » 15 Feb 2014 19:44

Quick follow-up question. I understand that a lot of the old American 5200s and A50s shared the same cylinder (?)

So if I find a couple of A50s using the AM3 key blank, does that also mean it is using an old school cylinder of serrated awesomeness?
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