Short Hook or Small Half Diamond?

[jak4949]

Greetings
After reading this forum for a while, I think I might have start off wrong. I started off with a rake pick and tension wrench. Everybodies suggestion seems to be a short hook. My question is: if i could only get one of them, which one should i get, the short hook, small half diamond, or stay with the rake. Please give me a brief comparison of their own unique uses.
Thank you
Any type of reply would be appreciated
-A beginner

[bembel]

Why only get one of them? I'd recommend a complete set with hook, snake and half-diamond to start with. Maybe you want to have a flat hook and a deep hook.

If you're limited to one pick only (for whatever reason) I'd recommend a regular hook.

[jak4949]

Why only get one of them? I'd recommend a complete set with hook, snake and half-diamond to start with. Maybe you want to have a flat hook and a deep hook.

If you're limited to one pick only (for whatever reason) I'd recommend a regular hook.

What benefits does the hook have that the rake, and half diamond doesn't? Whats the half diamond good for then?

[spandexwarrior]

No question, a short hook. Anything you can pick with a rake you can pick with a short hook.It may take longer but it will be more consistent/reliable to SPP for the largest variety of locks. This is probably true for a half diamond as well unless you get into more advanced locks and have a somewhat narrow use case for it - some people do prefer the half diamond though.

-Brian

[bembel]

The hook is the tool of choice for single pin setting. You can open almost every lock with this technique.
Raking will open locks, too, but not as much as with the hook.

Half Diamond is made for raking, setting and you can use it also on dimple locks.

[jak4949]

No question, a short hook. Anything you can pick with a rake you can pick with a short hook.It may take longer but it will be more consistent/reliable to SPP for the largest variety of locks. This is probably true for a half diamond as well unless you get into more advanced locks and have a somewhat narrow use case for it - some people do prefer the half diamond though.

-Brian

So, in short a half diamond is basically like the short hook (for SPP), but for narrower locks?

The hook is the tool of choice for single pin setting. You can open almost every lock with this technique.
Raking will open locks, too, but not as much as with the hook.

Half Diamond is made for raking, setting and you can use it also on dimple locks.

Which do you prefer for raking? the half diamond or the rake pick (s)?

[KPick]

Like Bembel said. Why only use one tool? you're going to need an assortment of tools to get good at picking. Don't just go with a short hook; look for what works best for you.

But if I had to make a choice between both, I would go with a short hook. Solely only because I've had a lot of success with the short hook bro.

[spandexwarrior]

No question, a short hook. Anything you can pick with a rake you can pick with a short hook.It may take longer but it will be more consistent/reliable to SPP for the largest variety of locks. This is probably true for a half diamond as well unless you get into more advanced locks and have a somewhat narrow use case for it - some people do prefer the half diamond though.

-Brian

So, in short a half diamond is basically like the short hook (for SPP), but for narrower locks?

The hook is the tool of choice for single pin setting. You can open almost every lock with this technique.
Raking will open locks, too, but not as much as with the hook.

Half Diamond is made for raking, setting and you can use it also on dimple locks.

Which do you prefer for raking? the half diamond or the rake pick (s)?

The traditional use of a half diamond is to push or pull a pin to lift it with leverage and horizontal motion vs lifting with vertical motion. This may be required in a very tight keyway, with certain bittings, or with a very stiff pin. It works as a rake because you can slide it in and out since the angle on the tip lifts the pins in either direction whereas a hook would snag on the way out. A s-rake or Bogota would be better in most situations for raking and could be used as a jiggler - harder to do that with a half diamond.

-Brian

[bembel]

Which do you prefer for raking? the half diamond or the rake pick (s)?

Usually I use snakes for raking. But in the end I prefer the tool that works.

P.S. Did you read the MIT guide to lockpicking already?

[easy-e]

Jak: instead of responding to your PM, I'll just respond here.

I really like hooks. I've got a bunch of different ones. I prefer one with a flat face as opposed to a round face. I've been practicing with a Peterson Gem but I find the angle to be similar to the half diamond. I needed to try something different as I'm working on some Medecos and the half diamond or gem seems to work well for rotating the pins. I never really got the hang of the half diamond and the only thing I've ever used it for is check pins on Schlage Everest locks. I do however like the deforest/offset diamond.

Diamonds can be used to lift individual pins but they are also referred to as 1 hump rakes. I've never used one to rake and I don't really use my rakes that often anyways.

I started out with a few individual cheap picks and grew my set from there.

We are talking about $1.65 each to start out: Southord has Cheap Standard Picks. The SP-9 profile is my favorite. Lots of pick manufactures use that same design. My go to pick is that style but it's Peterson's Gov. Steel with the plastic handle which are about $8 each. As far as diamonds go, the SP-07 is good, but I've found that diamonds with a thinner shank like the SLS-04 easier to use. The thinner shank are usually called euro or slimline. Southord has Cheap Slim Line Picks which are only 45 cents more than the standard ones. If you see "slender" then you are talking about the metal the pick is made out of being thinner. Slimline/euro mean the shank is reduced so you can navigate around the wards of a lock easier. They do bend easier, but they are still plenty strong.

A note on Southord's Shipping: It's only $2 if you only buy a few individual picks or tension wrenches - "Orders valuing less than $15.00 and containing only single lock picks / "TW" tension tools (excluding all MAX picks, TW-30 and TW-31) are provided an "Economy" First Class shipping option of $2.00 for shipments within the U.S."

[teamstarlet]

+1 for the deforest/offset diamond

I'm finding that the majority of my SPP'ing is done with a small half-diamond and the deforest. But as people have suggested, in order to be successful at this skill you'll need to have a selection of tools so that you can select the one best suited for the job.

I would recommend buying a small set and learning exactly when you should use each one through experience.

[crowley]

I find on many forums and websites, some by really famous lockpickers, that the half diamond is their go-to tool, for its versatility as a rake and a pick, and the ease of manoeuverability due to the sloped egdes on both sides. I can completely understand that concept, and use it to find unset pins.

My difficulty in using the half diamond is that in trying to actually set the pins, the size and shape of the pick head would not allow me to give a necessary deep set without disturbing the adjacent pins. If the adjacent pins are set, the target pin cannot be depressed sufficiently. If they are not set, they may overset/false set when I am pushing the target pin.

It has to mean something that the famous Raimundo's Bogota sets includes this as the SPP tool and not a hook. This causes me to ask, I using the half diamond wrongly? Could it be an issue of tension control?

[GWiens2001]

It comes with experience. Also, you can custom make a diamond rake to your specific needs. It was my go-to tool for many years. Learned to use a half diamond to SPP before I learned what raking was!

Gordon

[crowley]

Thanks for the reply Gordon.

How did you customise your half diamond? Steeper slopes? That would nullify the manoeuverability mentioned.

Been picking for 5 years now. In my EDC, apart from the bogota-tensor set, I have the 4 piece bogota flats (replaced the tension tool with the peterson pry bar lite). What I use the half diamond for is more for refined raking and follow up with the hook. I find that the half diamond can only set pins that do not have deep sets. I was hoping that it would be a tensor control issue so I could work on that.

[GWiens2001]

Yes, you can increase or decrease the slopes on the half diamond, and also the height of the peak. If you polish the pick well, it can be a little surprising how smoothly it will work in the lock even with somewhat steep angles.

Normally make my diamond rakes with a roughly 45 degree angle on each slope, giving me a peak that is 90 degrees.

In cases of very high and low bittings in the lock, a hook pick, gonzo, or deforest can be very helpful.

Diamond picks are also very useful when picking dimple locks.

Gordon