Call From The Police

[billdeserthills]

So while taking a nap yesterday, I received a call from a local detective. I was slow to wake up fully, but the gist of the conversation was that last year, I received a call from a client, who was taking revenge upon someone else. I was paid to open the front door on a house, which I shimmed open (it had a kwikset Gibson locking handleset) After opening the house I asked the thief (as I do most clients) if she would like me to make a free copy of her key, so this wouldn't happen to her again.
Apparently she was surprised by this, as she had no key to copy. She told me she didn't need another key, which made me suspicious, after all, who doesn't want a free key, right? At that point I told her I needed her driver's license, in order to type it onto my bill, which she provided. The detective tells me a neighbor saw her leaving the home with a trailer full of appliances and called the police. Why it takes the police 6 months to process this kind of thing is beyond me, but the detective wanted to come to my house last night to discuss it some more. I told him that he was more than welcome to meet me at my shop 6 days a week at 10am, but that I didn't want the police in my house. He said he understood, so I'm guessing he already ran me for priors and discovered another collection of mine... Anyhow it just seems odd to me that the detective wanted to come by my house, he inquired as to whether this thief was a girlfriend, or sister-in-law which she most certainly is not.

Anyhow I am very happy about feeling suspicious enough to include her ID on my bill

[somenewguy]

It sounds like you covered your bases, but I would get a lawyer to go with you just to cover yourself.

[billdeserthills]

It sounds like you covered your bases, but I would get a lawyer to go with you just to cover yourself.

Getting a lawyer is not something you wanna do before being formally accused of wrongdoing. I did have my private eye meet me this morning just to be my witness, but of course the detective didn't bother keeping his word and showing up, so that was a waste of a breakfast for my PI

[somenewguy]

I am surprised the Det did not show up, but that probably means he doesn't have any suspicion of YOU which is a good thing. Just be careful because sometimes in the rush to close cases, the blame gets pinned on any available person, especially if that person shows up and starts answering questions (unlike the dirtbag perp who doesn't return calls, skips town, is busy out scoring meth, etc).

[MSL]

What would you do if after opening a house or car the person refuses to give you an id?

For example if they say their wallet is locked inside so you'd have to wait until after the door is open to get it, and then they refuse after. Obviously we can't wrestle the person to the ground and forcibly take their drivers license to copy. Would sending the local PD an email or giving them a call to let them know be prudent?

[1mrchristopher]

If they refuse after the door has been unlocked (car or house), honestly I'd probably re-lock the door and walk away. Same as I'd do if they suddenly didn't have the money to pay for my services.

[2octops]

If they refuse after the door has been unlocked (car or house), honestly I'd probably re-lock the door and walk away. Same as I'd do if they suddenly didn't have the money to pay for my services.

There is a law on the books called Theft Of Services for times when someone refuses to pay or does not have the money after you have agreed upon a price. If someone refuses to pay us or does not have the money, then we simply lock the door back and call the police out to have them handle it. Usually the person comes up with money when they realize that we really are on the phone with the police and we are serious. In almost 20 years I've only had 2 that came down to having them arrested.

As far as the wrong person, we id everyone before we open something and have them sign off on a waiver that they are authorized to have whatever opened. Cars can be tricky to prove they have the right to enter, but usually they can tell you where the keys are inside or it's painfully obvious when you see their keys in the ignition. Also you learn to listen to their story and can pick up if it's their car or not.

Homes are a little trickier especially if their id is inside. You can ask a neighbor if they are outside but usually I just ask what's hanging on the wall right inside and next to the door. I open the door, take a peek and if they are even close to describing it let them enter and get their id and money. If they are completely wrong or can not describe it, go with your gut. It's easy enough to let them inside for a minute to get some mail with their name and the address on it or their id. If they can not provide any of this, simply call the police while you are there.

We also learned a long time ago to block their vehicle on any lockout with our van so they can not simply take off until we are ready for them to leave.

[1mrchristopher]

Thanks for the advice 2octops.

[MikeTheLocksmith]

2octops,

I would like to thank you for this post. I have been in the field a little over a year. I have always found lockouts to be difficult at times because of proof. I have used titles, license, mail, and phone calls to parents for minors. In addition I have had people tell me what was inside or asked for the location of their keys. Even with these measures, I have still run I to problems.

I had a customer with a license and mail proof. I also collected the money. On the way out one cop pulled up and started talking to me. The next thing I know the customer and myself were surrounded by about 10 cops. As it turns out the lady was not allowed inside the house. Thankfully I covered my part, so the police focused on her and sent me on my way. Proving ownership can be difficult. Does anyone else have any creative methods to ensuring ownership?

[billdeserthills]

Taking down the address and the client's drivers license should be sufficient to do your job. If someone is a thief you can only do so much, it isn't my job to prove a client owns a car, house or business and I'm not gonna waste time trying to.
I once opened a house in scottsdale, AZ, for a group of kids (16-19)who said it was the lead kid's Mom's home. Upon entering the alarm sounded and golly gee, the lead kid didn't seem able to turn it off. I got paid and waited to see if some looting would begin, which never did transpire. On my way out I provided my business card and a statement to the Scottsdale Police and was informed by them that the house actually belonged to the kids Stepfather and he wasn't welcome there. I went on my way unimpeded by the police, as I had recorded the lead kid's drivers license, which placed the fault on him. In that instance I was viewed as that kid's burglary tool

[MikeTheLocksmith]

Taking down the address and the client's drivers license should be sufficient to do your job. If someone is a thief you can only do so much, it isn't my job to prove a client owns a car, house or business and I'm not gonna waste time trying to.
I once opened a house in scottsdale, AZ, for a group of kids (16-19)who said it was the lead kid's Mom's home. Upon entering the alarm sounded and golly gee, the lead kid didn't seem able to turn it off. I got paid and waited to see if some looting would begin, which never did transpire. On my way out I provided my business card and a statement to the Scottsdale Police and was informed by them that the house actually belonged to the kids Stepfather and he wasn't welcome there. I went on my way unimpeded by the police, as I had recorded the lead kid's drivers license, which placed the fault on him. In that instance I was viewed as that kid's burglary tool

That is a great thing to know. I have feared repercutions of being an individuals burglary tool. The handful of run ins with the police created a peace of mind because the focus has always been the customer. The police gather my information and essentially send me on my way or watch me complete the job. I have always wondered where the line is drawn as far as liability goes. We locksmiths do not have the same tools to verify ownership as police. So as stated earlier, there is only so much we can do. I am so glad to have found this forum lol. Thank you.

[KPick]

Oh man all these stories make me squirm. I would really hate to run into burglars/thieves/idiots who would like to just USE us for a freekin break in.

[YouLuckyFox]

Imagining a burglar so lazy that he calls a locksmith to have the doors opened, a maid (saying the door will be left open) to "clean" the house and jewelry and leave the cleaned jewelry on a counter to be examined, a moving service to transport the jewelry to a gift delivery service, and a gift delivery service to take the jewelry and deliver it to an auction service, where he fences all of the goods.

[billdeserthills]

Oh man all these stories make me squirm. I would really hate to run into burglars/thieves/idiots who would like to just USE us for a freekin break in.

I had an ex-husband pay me to unlock the front door & make a key, so he could keep an eye out for his divorced wife-I didn't get the full story up front tho. Upon opening the front door the heady stench of a drug addict's house almost started my eyes burning. Many of these folks stop doing the dishes and you will Know It as soon as you smell the rotting food that has been laying in the sink for 6+ weeks. Of course in the beginning of the job I didn't know anything but what he had told me over the phone. As soon as that smell hit tho, I knew something wasn't normal here. When I handed him the key and received his check, he admitted that it wasn't really his house & I started feeling very wrong about the whole thing, but I tried to console myself figuring that even if I had not done the job, some other smith woulda. The next week his check bounced & I was almost too glad to drive right over & break a key off in the front door. As the other door to the house was in the garage I figured all would be well again...

[1mrchristopher]

Thank goodness for modern technology - with the exception of businesses, I have a strict NO CHECKS policy. Can't have many problems with a payment method when you don't accept it.