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Serrated Pins! How to pick them?

Picked all the easy locks and want to step up your game? Further your lock picking techniques, exchange pro tips, videos, lessons, and develop your skills here.

Serrated Pins! How to pick them?

Postby fgarci03 » 23 Nov 2013 21:53

I see this coming up constantly. I though it was time to put up a guide and hopefully help anyone.


Serrated Pins! How to pick them?
Image
Image taken from http://www.lockwiki.com


For those who have read other guides, you may notice similarities to other texts on some expressions I will use. This text was based on Solomon's book and on a text Oldfast wrote. But I guarantee that EVERYTHING here is first hand experience. Some expressions they used are just too good to be wasted with me trying to write them on a different way.

You have been warned...



So, after picking for a while, you start to crave for more... "LET ME TRY SPOOLS", you say!
Soon you will be left with this question: "What do I pick now?"
I know... The same happened to me!

Some of the most fun and rewarding security pins you can pick are serrated pins. You will soon know why! :mrgreen:


For this guide to be of help, you have to at least be confortable with the concepts of false set, counter-rotation, and how to properly SPP a lock. You don't need to be good at it, you just have to know what these things are, and how to work with them!

On top of that, you need to have a deep(ish) understanding of overseting a pin, or better, how NOT to do it! You can read that HERE.

Done? Good, now let's go on!



The first lock with serrated pins you should get is an American Padlock. It's classic. They have a mix of Serrated Driver and Keypins, and Hybrid Serrated Spools, from now on mentioned as Spoorated Pins. I started with the 5200. Some of these may have, instead of serrated pins, one bump stop pin and everything else regular. Be carefull chosing the lock and get one with serrated pins.
Image


Enought talking, let's start! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

In order to pick these pins, you basically have to add one thing: distinguishing between a false (the serrations) and a real set.
When you lift a serrated pin, the serration will "catch" on the sheerline and it will feel and/or sound like a set. You have to be able to scientifically differentiate them.


How to do it?
If you read the post I linked about oversetting, you might have already realized how to distinguish serrations!
Basically, if you find the perfect balance between lifting force and tension, you just have to keep lifting untill you bump into a wall.
Listen to the clicks.. Should be something like: Click, Click, Click, STONEWALL (no click or movement whatsoever!).

Be aware that the force to overcome a serration is bigger than to just lift a pin. But it's still smaller than the force needed to overset a pin. You just need to adjust you tension and/or lifting force on the first serration. Then keep it steady. The window of oportunity is much smaller now, so some practice is required (not as much as you might think though! :wink:).

Basically when the force needed to overcome the last serration isn't enough to overcome the next, it most probably means you have just setted that pin. Time to move on!


Another telling that the pin is set!
This one isn't very reliable. But it does help! So I'll explain it but I must warn you: If you just rely on this you will get frustrated!

Sound! Notice the sound of the clicks. A click on a serration should be duller than the actual set, which is crispier.
This can be affected by a number of factors such as dirt in the lock and lubrication.
But, in a perfect world, it should be something like: Click, Click, Click, SNAP!

This method is to be used IN ADDITION to Feeling, which is the only truly reliable method to use. But it does add some sense of security to you "decision" of set vs. false set.

On my first few tryouts with serrated pins, I practiced with gloves on to develop a refined sense. You can hear the difference between many clicks:





What about Spoorated Pins??
These pins don't add much difficulty to regular spools. Basically they only have one serration you have to overcome. The exact same principle is applied: The force needed to overcome the serration's false set is NEVER bigger than the force needed to overcome the spool's false set. But it's ALWAYS smaller than the force needed to overset. So just stick to the same method and it's peach! :mrgreen:


I hope this will help you overcome these pins faster. I tried to be thorough but I might have missed some points. I am sorry for that! :evil:



For last, I'll just add that there are numerous ways to pick these, I just wrote about the one I use, and seems more logical.
Other technique is Reversed Picking, which consists in purposely oversetting the pins and let them fall down to their set position. With serrated keypins this has became obsolete, although I've heard it's still possible. I've never even tried it, so if you do, be sure to post your results here.


And for the real last part!!
There are many kinds of serrated pins. The ones on American Padlocks have small serrations but there are some with deeper and larger serrations:
Image

Image

These are a little more complicated. But just a little.
To tell the truth, the same principle is applied. But you have to count on a counter-rotation much like if it was a spool. Everything else remains the same: When the force to lift the pin isn't enought to move it further, it should be set!


Have fun! :mrgreen:
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
- GWiens2001
fgarci03
 
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Re: Serrated Pins! How to pick them?

Postby GWiens2001 » 24 Nov 2013 18:05

Very nice guide, fgarci. 8) Well written, and sure to help others.

Remember waaaay back when you first tried a serrated pin, and somebody told you that you would be teaching the stuff soon. Let that be a lesson to all of you who are thinking that you "will never get the hang of serrated pins". We all were there once! If you dedicate yourself to working with picking, someday - probably soon - you will be writing guides and giving advice, too!

Fgarci, you are doing a lot of writeups that are really great! Just one note on this one...

fgarci03 wrote:But, in a perfect world, it should be something like: Click, Click, Click, SNAP!


That sound can also be caused by too much tension. If that SNAP sound is accompanied by your pick or tension wrench mysteriously becoming two or more pieces, you are probably using too much tension. :twisted:

Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
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Re: Serrated Pins! How to pick them?

Postby fgarci03 » 24 Nov 2013 19:00

Thank you for the kind words!
Yes, I remember saying that, indeed :mrgreen: It was the boost I needed to take this seriously.


GWiens2001 wrote:
fgarci03 wrote:But, in a perfect world, it should be something like: Click, Click, Click, SNAP!


That sound can also be caused by too much tension. If that SNAP sound is accompanied by your pick or tension wrench mysteriously becoming two or more pieces, you are probably using too much tension. :twisted:

Gordon

That SNAP is also usually accompanied by a loud: ()#&/$)$ "/#"/$)&$( !#/$/#$)$&)$! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
And depending on your feeling for the tool, maybe a tear or two. Be carefull with that :mrgreen:
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
- GWiens2001
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Re: Serrated Pins! How to pick them?

Postby mikus » 25 Nov 2013 14:52

Serrated pins are a pain for me, specially when combined with spool pins. I need more practice and with this guide it should be easier since i know now what to look for in the keyway! Thanks for posting it :)
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Re: Serrated Pins! How to pick them?

Postby deolslyfox » 3 Mar 2015 19:59

Great post. I'd just add that when working in a restricted keyway you will also get some clicks and snaps as your pick slips off the warding.

When starting out with multiple serrateds, try picking each pin "one click at a time".

It will take longer but you will develop a feel for the click vs snap this way.

Also keep score as you move thru the stack. If you go past three clicks you should be looking for a set or thinking overset.

Practice !!
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Re: Serrated Pins! How to pick them?

Postby nickmannnxx » 12 Mar 2015 20:16

Fgarci03,
Great post! What lock are those "spoolrated" pins from? Do they feel like spp
spools when you setting them? Is there alot of counter rotation?
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Re: Serrated Pins! How to pick them?

Postby GWiens2001 » 13 Mar 2015 1:04

The spoorated pins are from American padlocks.

Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
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Re: Serrated Pins! How to pick them?

Postby nickmannnxx » 14 Mar 2015 20:19

All the more reason for me to buy more Americans! :D
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Re: Serrated Pins! How to pick them?

Postby GWiens2001 » 14 Mar 2015 20:58

nickmannnxx wrote:All the more reason for me to buy more Americans! :D


Or get yourself an American padlock pinning kit. :wink:

Gordon
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Re: Serrated Pins! How to pick them?

Postby fgarci03 » 15 Mar 2015 4:48

nickmannnxx wrote:Fgarci03,
Great post! What lock are those "spoolrated" pins from? Do they feel like spp
spools when you setting them? Is there alot of counter rotation?


Thanks!
Spoorated pins feels exactly like spools while picking. The only difference is that they need an extra click after you overcome the counter-rotation!
Me and Gordon are assuming you were asking about the pins on the first picture. If you were asking about the last picture with a very deep serration in the middle, they come from a Commando lock if I'm not mistaken... The one before that I can't remember :mrgreen: For those pins, the same principle applies while picking, you will be able to feel the difference of the set vs. false set :wink:
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
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Re: Serrated Pins! How to pick them?

Postby GWiens2001 » 15 Mar 2015 9:00

fgarci03 wrote:
nickmannnxx wrote:Fgarci03,
Great post! What lock are those "spoolrated" pins from? Do they feel like spp
spools when you setting them? Is there alot of counter rotation?


Thanks!
Spoorated pins feels exactly like spools while picking. The only difference is that they need an extra click after you overcome the counter-rotation!
Me and Gordon are assuming you were asking about the pins on the first picture. If you were asking about the last picture with a very deep serration in the middle, they come from a Commando lock if I'm not mistaken... The one before that I can't remember :mrgreen: For those pins, the same principle applies while picking, you will be able to feel the difference of the set vs. false set :wink:


Fgarci lives!!! :shock: :shock:

The Commando locks come with nice security pins. If you get the twisty Yale keyway, those pins make for a fun pick.

Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
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