Got a question about key machines? not sure what to buy? need a user manual? have some tips for keeping one running well or need help cutting or programming keys? Post here!
My machines came with factory made adjustment templates that do a great job. The Silca Bravo machines rarely need adjustment. I took a dial indicator to work and both machines that we use daily had basically no lateral play. They are amazingly well built machines. There are three stops on the machine, a top shoulder stop, a bottom shoulder stop and a tip stop. All are right on the money. I just occasionally have to adjust the depth to counter cutter wear.
Unfortunately the factory made adjustment templates from my machine have been lost. I must make them myself. The vices have four positions, each of them with 2 grooves for tip stop and 1 top shoulder stop. Plus one retractable double stop for bottom shoulders. (Maybe what you say top is bottom for me et vice versa.) Again, the barriers which should fit tightly into tip stop grooves have been lost. Next week I'll try to eliminate the lateral allowance of the cutter bearings 30 µm too.
I think it was the first video that popped up, it just worked out that way by chance.
The tip stops can be often be fashioned from flat keys, we use them for safe deposit locks in the USA. I use a blank attached to a length of chain so that it doesn't go missing all the time.
tomasfuk wrote:Next week I'll try to eliminate the lateral allowance of the cutter bearings 30 µm too.
I looked at it. There are 2 ball bearings SKF 6002-2RS1 which should have max. 20µm radial clearances being new. I think that the 30 µm axial clearance is in accordance with it. I see 2 ways how to decrease it: 1) exchange the ball bearings for SKF 6002-2RSH/C2 which have max. 11 µm radial clearance. 2) put a thin (20 µm) distance washer there. This is what I will do.
Thus, the 20 µm distance washer is there. Here are my new depth & spacing gauges: They have been cut with accuracy ± 10 µm in depth and ± 20 µm in spacing. To be able to do that, I had to condition the keys stops and shoulders: before: and after: With this set I am able to code cut new keys within factory specifications now. And to copy keys far more precisely than any locksmith around
Most key duplicators have a arm that moves toward the cutter in an arc. If the blank doesnt hit at exact center line of the cutter's shaft, you can have a key that the cuts are higher on one side of the blade. That is why when you make a copy from a copy, it may not work in the lock. For ASSA keys, the really need to be computer cut. I am looking at a cutting machine that the jaws dont move in an arc, but move in a straight line thru the cutter. This will assure that the cuts thru the blade are straight. Can probably stack 2 or 3 blanks and cut them all at once. May even be able to cut ASSA if I take care in setting up the machine. We'll see.
tomasfuk wrote:It depends on what ASSA keys you mean. KESO is ASSA, Abloy is ASSA, MTL is ASSA, Medeco is ASSA but Yale, IKON, Ruko, FAB are ASSA too...
I think he means ASSA as in ASSA 600, 700, Twin, V10. He didn't say ASSA Abloy Group, so let's assume the simplest explanation, shall we?
tomasfuk wrote:OK, let's jimu57 say what ASSA keys need to be so precise in his opinion.
ASSA manufacturing processes work to close fits and tight tolerances. It's possible to hand cut a key for an ASSA cyclinder. I have done it myself. I do not have the dimensional tolerances nor geometric tolerancing specs that ASSA uses in their manufacture. I doubt if that is made public. But we all know that ASSA does manufacture to more strict requirements than US lock manufacturers.
Tolerances on key depth and spacing IS made available by ASSA. Each position is measured from the shoulder and has a tolerance spec of +.0008"/-.0012". Instead of incremental spacing (from cut to cut), ASSA references every cut from the shoulder, therefore the tolerances do not accumulate. The depth of each cut (measured from the bottom of the blade) has a tolerance of +.0000"/-.0016".
ASSA makes a secure lock because of their design and because of close fit and tight tolerances. As I said, yes you can make a key that works. But to produce a key that time after time works properly in any cylinder, it takes a machine that can hold the tolerance requirement. Some first cut keys I had were out of spec. I measured them all and cut depths were out of spec anywhere from .002" to .005". I have a lot of 600 series cylinders and checked keys with all of them. The out of spec keys would work with some but not all. When I got new cut keys there were in spec and ALL cylinders would work with each and every key. I think the tolerancing thing goes back to interchangeble parts defined in early industrial revolution.
Tolerances in key cutting is there for a purpose. You may make a key to fit ONE lock, but if you do not have the equipment to hold the spec called out by the manufacturer, and need to cut a lot of keys, you are looking at wasting a lot of blanks and time.
Just FYI, the ASSA FAB tolerances specification is: cut position relative to the key stop: ± 30 µm (0.0012 ") cut depth (or better, key height in the cut): +0 - 50 µm (0.002") cut angle: -0 +3º cut bottom width: -0 +0.1 mm (0.004")
