High security key is mostly shallow

[Squelchtone]

Hi,

I had a high security cylinder and keyset made and it seems to me like the way it was cut mostly really shallow and without a lot of variation would make it easy to pick or bump.

It looks to me like it is way too shallow, like the locksmith doesn't wants his cutting blade to last longer, save time on each key, or be able to bump or rake it easy.

https://imageshack.us/i/eyOwk6D0j

it is a medeco style key, Marks USA UL 437 listed HI-SECURITY model (if anyone knows anything about if it is prob still good quality or not please say so)

Am I right, does this key/lock need greater depth variation? It seriously looks to me like 1 2 1 2 1 3 and may be insecure. I'm also kind of pissed because the deadbolt is probably not that pry or saw resistant. What do you think?

https://imageshack.us/i/iplBZYO4j

[Squelchtone]

having clicked the links to the photos, it's not as bad as I expected. not great, but not bad in terms of high/low key cut bitting (key cut depths).

Does the other side of your key have a sidebar milling squiggle? (you dont have to show us, we dont want to give away your security to the entire internet)

This isn't actually like the Medeco style at all, I think you have a CX-5 Scorpion which I guess Marks has rights to make and sell these days.

[spandexwarrior]

Yeah, that is the Marks version of the CX-5 (you can see the sidebar code stamped on the back of the key). I wouldn't be worried about the bitting. That should also have spooled driver pins and countermilling in the plug (additional security features).

-Brian

[MacGyver101]

I'd agree with Squelchtone and Brian. The first four pins have different bittings; combined with the sidebar, doesn't look too bad for me, for that class of lock.

[MBI]

As already mentioned above, it is a licensed copy of the Scorpion CX-5. They won't be bumping it and they'd have to be a pretty good picker to be able to pick it. Most pickers I know don't know how to handle the finger pins that interface with the squiggly cut on the side of the key.

In terms of forced entry, it's been a while since I worked with the Marks Hi-Security locks, but I seem to recall they make a UL listed version with some drill protection features (much less common), and a regular version without the hardened inserts (much more common for this lock). I think it will have the UL logo stamped on the front if it has the anti-drill inserts.

So while you probably don't have the anti-drill version, I wouldn't feel too bad. Most burglars don't drill, and the few who might probably won't know how to drill that lock since it has an additional locking mechanism inside with the sidebar. Just make sure it's properly installed with a hardened steel strike plate that's securely attached to wall frame studs with long screws, to prevent having the door kicked in. It's HIGHLY doubtful you'll encounter a burglar who would be able to pick it and even less likely to find one who can impression or bump that lock open. Even among this crowd, which has some of the world's best lockpickers, only a small handful are picking locks like that. You also won't likely have people making unauthorized copies of your key since only certain limited locksmiths can even order the blanks you need to cut keys for your lock.

I've carried them in the past in small quantities, I like them. At one point I almost signed up to get my own keyway since it's about the most affordable high-security lock I know of. They don't have a cheap price tag, but usually a bit lower than Medeco, Abloy, BiLock, etc.

[CaliDream1956]

Great feedback everyone, thank you.

I feel a bit better already. It does have the side cut squigly like the Medeco keys. It is definitely their UL 437 version because I have obsessively been researching locks for awhile now and I made sure that it was before I came in. You are right that not all of them come with that drilling protection, because he told me they had their own lock like Medecos and had their own keyway so that no one else could make blanks after I got it was Marks locks I looked it up and they have the ones without drilling protection (Security-Mate) and the UL ones (HI-SECURITY). I saw the box and I can see the pins on them now. This one doesn't have UL on it.

http://imageshack.us/i/f0ZnnSNfj

I wish that the deadbolt had a steel pin or pins in it. Perhaps I could replace just the bolt? I am not too confident about it. Surely it's decent but I just spent a lot of money and I want it to be great. It is for a metal sheetscreen\wrought iron security door. I am wondering if it would make a difference to have a second deadbolt instead of the crappy knob there now or a quality deadlatch knob. (I could put the inside high security one in it and have low security ones on the inside, could even leave key in as a knob most of the time). I have heard that adding a second deadbolt doesn't add that much more force required but this is for prying open really so may be different. It just seems to me that having even a decent knob lock would help prevent prying, especially kicking in. For a security screen you could have two deadbolts, a handle, and a magnet or magnets that hold it closed like a cabinet. At that point it might start looking kind of trashy and be weird to use. Always a tradeoff in everything it seems.

[Squelchtone]

Great feedback everyone, thank you.

I feel a bit better already. It does have the side cut squigly like the Medeco keys.

Medeco DOES NOT have any squigly lines, I'm not sure where you are getting this info. Can you show us a pic or link of where you are getting this info or is this what the locksmith told you? I'd rate Medeco as much higher quality than a Marks CX-5, so I hope you didn't pay more than $150 for that cylinder and deadbolt body.

Squelchtone

[Evan]

bitting to me looks like

bow > 5 2 4 3 4 3

definitely looks like an ok bitting for a single keyed unit..


~~ Evan

[CaliDream1956]

Thanks Evan, I assume by single keyed unit you mean it is just for my place, not like being in an organization with other people with similar keys?


Squelchtone: I believe I just got them mixed up, kind of weird since I would have sweated that is Medeco's style and I originally was focusing on them. I just returned the crappy deadbolt today but still have the cylinders and keys. I'm really not happy about it since I want to go in a different direction now. For my security door I'm thinking the Mul-T-lock hercular or Abloy expanding bolts with their strikeboxes would be good against prying them open, the main attack for it.

I paid 80 a cylinder x 4 which is a lot, I was doing it before because it included having a local way to rekey and he was keying all alike for me as part of the cost.

So now I am stuck with 4 of these things and out about 375 because of tax and extra keys.

[jimu57]

What kid of door and door jamb do you have? If its a simple wooden door jamb, the lock is an overkill. One kick and the jamb is splinters but the lock will be in good shape in the open door.

[CaliDream1956]

Jim, for the inside opening door you are refering to I just received the Door MAX Combo. It has a large metal strike plate, long screws, sheilds etc. Feels pretty high quality. I wish it extended the whole frame but it is pretty big

I was thinking of adding one of these Mul-T-Lock security mortise 3 bolt deals on that inside opening door below the regular knob or replacing the knob with one of these with a lever, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mul-t-lock-dead ... 43d95650ac My door is only metal skinned wood edged but I'm just trying to prevent prying and kicking, not a circular saw that would be kind of ridiculous for a normal thief.

On the outside security door, which is metal and opens out, I think a expanding bolt system would be the best. If anyone knows of a good lock housing I could put these cylinders in that'd be great.

What kid of door and door jamb do you have? If its a simple wooden door jamb, the lock is an overkill. One kick and the jamb is splinters but the lock will be in good shape in the open door.

[MBI]

At the moment my brain is stuck and I can't think of a source for a cheap price on door hardware for your cylinders.

However, if you want more reinforcement for the door and frame, since it appears you're giving that some consideration, I think these kits are a pretty good value and offer a great deal of reinforcement. If this one doesn't work for your type of door, there are some other kits you can browse on the same website.
https://securitysnobs.com/DJArmor-Gold- ... Doors.html

They also have about the best retail prices you'll find on high security locks, as well as the Abloy expanding bolt you were talking about. Aside from the bolts I don't think they sell deadbolt housings without the cylinders, but I guess you could always ask them to be sure.
https://securitysnobs.com/Deadbolt-Bolts/