Locks I've opened and tools I'm interested in

[Pickin 312]

Since my last post I've been pretty busy...still practicing when I can. In the past couple days, I felt like I lost the touch. I was struggling with simple locks and I haven't been able to open the Master no.532. I have been sticking to all the advice (which I appreciate) that I've been getting from this forum ... Tension tool on top will be my topic. I was able to free up enough time today to practice a bit more and here's what I found. I went back to tension tool on the bottom and just opened 3 locks including the Master 532. I'm guessing everyone has there own method of doing this. My question is how crucial is it to put the tension tool on top...if at all necessary. Thanks again for the replies.

[Pickin 312]

I would also love to know how much easier/harder it is to pick a Schlage deadbolt door lock than this Master no.532 !!! I have a friend that keeps busting my nuts about "NEVER" being able to open his house lock.
Master lock no.532 has 5 pins ... 4 spool & 1 standard. Help me out!

[kwoswalt99-]

TOK tension isn't necessary, it's more of a convenience. You generally don't have as many problems with a TOK not fitting correctly than BOK wrenches. Whichever fits better and gives you the most room is the one you should use. As far as which lock is harder, unless the Schlage doesn't have spools, they should be about the same.

[Pickin 312]

After watching another video, I'm trying another approach. I rake the lock first a couple times before trying SPP. "Raking" has opened the lock a few times, but I now "Rake" it a bit then SPP. Since I'm still trying to figure out the feel of different pins, should I stick to SPP or try these other techniques? Is every technique part of the hobby??? "BoznianBill" has some great videos on this hobby. He makes it look easy! I almost feel like I'm cheating if I "rake" the lock instead of SPP. If I bury most pins with a rake, am I cheating myself of "pin feel"? Let me know what you think, and Thanks again

[Pickin 312]

I'm think I'm making some progress. I now have a boss in a different field of my department interested in the hobby of picking locks. He's asking me questions!! I now know by watching him how much practice and tension has to do with opening a lock. He went straight for the best lock picking tools you can get as I did (blame the tool). I'm not as consistent as I want to be, but I can open the practice locks I have. I'm guessing I have to start paying more attention to the binding pin order? I mostly have Master locks. The locks I practice with are ... Master no.532, Pro Series 6127 and trying the 930/6230. Give me some advice. I still think at times that I'm still getting lucky.

[kwoswalt99-]

Have you read this? http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=61391&p=452684#p452684

[Mighty]

I'm guessing I have to start paying more attention to the binding pin order?

I've had arguments about the binding pin order with people, but I don't think it matters much, unless you are very concerned about how quickly you can open a lock. I generally try the 1st pin, then move towards the back of the lock (since I'm putting most tension on the front, so I suspect it's most likely to bind there first, and if I set the front-most pins first, then they are not in the way of pins behind them). BosnianBill on the other hand prefers the rear pins first, so that he won't be oversetting pins in the front when he's trying to get one's at the back. We both get locks open, so I'm guessing that's all just about style and comfort.

Assuming you are using just enough tension to set your pins, when you pick a pin, it will only ever drop back down if you pick a 'fatter' pin. That's my own slang term by which I mean a pin that needs the core to be more towards the untensioned default position to be picked. Once you have picked the 'fattest' pin, there is no other pin that can be picked that will allow it to drop back down its little hole. You may have to pick all the pins in order to find the find the fattest, or you may get lucky and get it on the first one.

If you are picking standard pins, they will bind in the order of fattest to skinniest. Serrated and spool pins on the other hand may require the luck of the draw, since you only get counter-rotation feedback to know they're not picked. Just move down the row and pick each one you reach that binds or give you counter-rotation. Sometimes a pin will fall back down, but as long as you don't overset a pin (you'll know because they suddenly all become springy), then you are making progress.

[kwoswalt99-]

If you are picking standard pins, they will bind in the order of fattest to skinniest. Serrated and spool pins on the other hand may require the luck of the draw, since you only get counter-rotation feedback to know they're not picked.

Security pins will bind in a specific order just like standard pins.

[Mighty]

Security pins will bind in a specific order just like standard pins

Yes they will, but you don't get the direct feedback on which is the first in the order needing to be picked, like you do with standard pins. When you have the false set, they are all caught at their skinniest points, and you can feel they are all security pins because pressing on any of them will give you counter-rotation, but you can't tell which has the fattest base. You have to pick one, and see if it stays up after the next one. I could be wrong, but I don't think there is any feedback that gives you that info directly. You could find that a serrated pin with shallow cuts will bind firmly before a spool with a very skinny centre, but if the base of the spool requires the core to be turned back far enough, that picked serrated pin will drop back down and need to be picked again. Then, when you pick the serrated, the spool will not drop back down.

What I'm saying is, that as long as you pick that security pin with the fattest base, it will not fall back down after being picked (we agree they have a picking order), but you can't know for sure which pin that is, without prior knowledge of the lock. At that point its just a matter of picking pins with counter-rotation until you are done.

The maximum number of picks required at that point will be the sum of a series like this one for 4 security pins (4+3+2+1 = 10 picks). For 5 security pins (5+4+3+2+1 = 15 picks maximum).

That said, I'm just going on my own understanding and I'm relatively new, so if there is a way to know the order of security pins from the false set, then I would love to hear it, because it would step up my game by a big factor.

[Pickin 312]

Thanks for your replies. The detailed info you guys give is very helpful. The "getting lucky" comment has allot to do with the speed I can open the lock. Some days it takes me a minute, and other days it may take 10. I guess I should start looking at it a little differently... Did I get the lock opened? Yes. Who gives a shiznit how long it took? The lock is open. I've never used a vise to hold the lock. Do most of you use your hand to hold the lock or do you use a vise? It doesn't seem very realistic. If someone at work lost the key for their locker, I'm thinking that practicing in such a controlled manner may make a simple pick a little harder because it's hanging in a way that you’re not used to doing. I could be 100% wrong. Share your thoughts and thanks again.

[kwoswalt99-]

I always pick in a vise now. It's just more convenient and the feedback is better. If you can't pick a lock under nonstandard conditions, then you really haven't mastered lock picking. Practice will help your chance of success in the real world no matter whether it's in a vice or not.

[Pickin 312]

I'm giving an update on my progress because thanks to your replies, I think I'm getting a better feel for how important tension is. I watched a BosnianBill video that he posted using a washer to apply the tension. Between that and your advice, I am now opening my practice lock (Master No. 532) a bit quicker. I just opened a Master 930/6230 for the first time. I'm not sure if American locks are a lot harder or the same, but I've chose to master the Master before changing brands. I'm hoping the progress on the locks I've mentioned is similar to American or Schlage??? I look forward to all comments and advice. Thanks

[Pickin 312]

Besides Craigslist or eBay, does anybody have a website for buying locks to practice with? I can't barter or trade here until I have my 30 posts. This animal may not exist, but I thought I would ask. I guess I can say "Hi" a dozen more times, but I enjoy the hobby and respect the forum. Thanks in advance.

[Squelchtone]

Besides Craigslist or eBay, does anybody have a website for buying locks to practice with? I can't barter or trade here until I have my 30 posts. This animal may not exist, but I thought I would ask. I guess I can say "Hi" a dozen more times, but I enjoy the hobby and respect the forum. Thanks in advance.

You don't need 30 posts to BUY a lock, you need 30 posts to SELL locks or offer locks you own for trade. This is to make sure some new member only interested in selling some locks to never be seen again doesn't just join and start their 1st post in the buy sell trade area trying to use lp101 as a place to sell stuff to a very specialized audience. If you see something you like in the Buy Sell Trade area, you are welcome to go shopping, it is up to the seller to sell or not sell to you if they feel you have enough posts or time here in order to make sure the transaction goes well for both parties.

ebay and craigslist are great places to buy used padlocks and lock cylinders, I search for rim cylinder or mortise cylinder on ebay and lots of stuff comes up, some of it with free shipping. There isnt a usedlocks.com or anything like that, but you could always go to your local goodwill store or Savers or Habitat for Humanity and look for locks pulled off doors during demolition and remodels.

Thanks for not just saying hi a dozen more times, but surely you can ask a dozen more locksport questions or help other new members who are also starting out.

Squelchtone

[Pickin 312]

I'm looking for help. I can assume I am not alone with this newest problem... borrowing locks to a friend that sets pins with a sledge hammer!! My practice locks are both Master. No. 532 and 930/6230. The 532 feels sloppy and will no longer open. The 630 core spins freely in circles. I'm under the assumption that he has the pins stuck all the way up. I have never taken a lock apart. Giving the locks a couple smacks seems to free up pins, but they don't completely recover. Besides never handing him another lock, does anyone have a fix for this? Thanks in advance