Locksmith Training

[Silverado]

I searched the forums for info, and I went through everything offered...
There is no training or schooling in locksmithing available to me locally, and I did attempt to check out the courses at SOPL. SOPL requires a log in for the courses, and I did not continue with membership application as it appears I have to pay for membership and I want to confirm some things with the community here before I invest.

I received paperwork for Foley-Belsaw training, for which I can make monthly payments while I'm going through their courses. It offers a key cutter/copier, a pick gun, and some business operation training material as well. They send you hardware (locks, keys, tools) for course specific training too...
I read here on the forums that Foley-Belsaw was expensive for outdated material, and that most of the cost of the course ($799 if I do it by monthly payments, $679 if I pay it all off at once) comes from the key cutter they send the student.
My caveat is that I'm not sure which way to go to get the basics of the locksmithing business.
If I go SOPL I'll have to buy all of the equipment myself, and still pay for membership...
If I go Foley-Belsaw I can make affordable payments and all the equipment comes with the course, but the course material might be outdated...

I don't have a pile of money to invest in hardware. The option to get some hardware for a monthly fee is enticing. I am very serious about this and do plan on starting my own locksmithing business. I am obviously already leaning toward Foley-Belsaw training but I don't want to invest in training that will end up detrimental to my business aspirations.

Does anyone have a realistic recommendation for this?

[billdeserthills]

My Dad took the Foley-Belsaw course back in the 1960's, you can buy the Foley book for much less on Ebay, and if you think you want their crummy key machine,
which I highly doubt any real locksmith would use, you can also buy it for much less on Ebay too. I suspect that out of the actual number of graduates of the Foley
Belsaw school, not many are actually working in their chosen field. I understand wanting some structure in your training, but I think you can get some of that with
an old Foley book you buy off of Ebay

[Silverado]

That seems like some pretty sound advice. A quick look showed me a few Foley-Belsaw 3 ring binders from the 70s/80s. Binder that says "Foley-Belsaw Institute" Home Study course... Would that be it?

I also may have a lead on a Taylor Lock Co. KD9A key machine for a decent price...the thing looks like a small one and I honestly don't know anything about them.

What would you recommend for a starter key machine?

[Divinorum]

The equipment that comes with the foley course is nothing special. Some cylinders, pin packs, a few really bad picks, and the key machine. The key machine is alright, again nothing special. It's a decent starter machine but I would not rely on it for my business. I really only use mine for cutting flat steel keys and duplicating in the road when absolutely necessary as a last resort. Code cutting is a chore and iffy most of the time.

The material is most definitely out dated. They have come out with some updated expansion courses but they cost extra and are not included. That price is not set in stone. Search the forums and online and there are plenty of people that have been able to "make a deal". I can't speak about SPOL because I don't really know to much about it. If you are more of a hobbyist and want some training and a basic key machine to play with choose Foley. If you want updated best quality training you may want to look into something other than Foley.

[Silverado]

Thanks for the advice Divinorum!
I found some other reviews about the FB training and it seems like a bust. The general consensus is that it is not worth the money.

What about this machine here?
http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/tls/5818885431.html

The guy is asking $100 for that and also has a GMPS-620 pick set he's asking $50
The pick set retails for $130 ish, so that's not a bad deal.

Is the key machine worth $100, or should I pass on it?

[mseifert]

Interesting.. This thread spurred me to look up the requirement to become a Licensed locksmith in Texas. It would appear that there is a pretty wide range when it comes to getting your license..

- Take a 48 hour basic locksmith course (like the one ALOA offers)
- Attend an approved locksmith trade school (must include a specific curriculum consisting of approximately 600 hours of class time);
- Work for a licensed lock shop for one year full-time, And they will get you a pocket card. After 2 years you can take the Manager Exam..

So why would you go through 600hrs of class time when you can do 48hrs with ALOA...

[Jacob Morgan]

Several months ago I found a Foley-Belsaw key machine for about $100, shipping included. It is not great, but can make keys that work, can do very simple code cutting with space and depth keys, and can also cut flat keys, as another poster mentioned.

I have not taken the Foley-Belsaw course or seen the whole set of lessons, so I can not comment on that. However, I did aquire the "continuing education series" book a few months ago. It was on sale for $49. It included fire codes, ADA requirements, door closers, transponder keys, opening late model cars, electric strikes, panic bars, euro cylinders, and other things. I suspect they put in all the stuff that people complained was not in the course. That book plus Phillip's book may be worthwhile. I am not a locksmith, but that is my impression.

My impression is also that going into locksmithing is not as easy as people think. 30-40 years ago, when all of suburbia decided they needed dead bolt locks installed, and they wanted them to be keyed to the KIK lock, I suspect a Foley-Belsaw graduate could have made a killing, and got their feet on the ground.

40 years ago the tools required to anything related to automotive locksmithing were trivial. Today the tools to clone or program and cut a lot of auto keys are very expensive.

A lot of the quick and easy residential work is gone. If people need to change locks they throw the old one away and buy a new one. If they want it rekeyed the hardware store does it. Scammers do the lockouts. That leaves commercial work. I doubt that the Foley-Belsaw course would prepare one to walk into an office complex and expand their master key system with SFIC locks, set up an RFID system to allow badges to open electric strikes, etc.

If you are interested in being self-employed then you have to be very realistic and count the cost and determine what kind of market there is. I have known, or known of, several people who took the Foley Belsaw course and none of them went into business. Think about it like it was any other skilled trade (HVAC, plumbing, etc.) that requires capital and experience to get started. Just my two cents.

[billdeserthills]

Thanks for the advice Divinorum!
I found some other reviews about the FB training and it seems like a bust. The general consensus is that it is not worth the money.

What about this machine here?
http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/tls/5818885431.html

The guy is asking $100 for that and also has a GMPS-620 pick set he's asking $50
The pick set retails for $130 ish, so that's not a bad deal.

Is the key machine worth $100, or should I pass on it?

If that machine will cut a 3rd generation key, it is definitely worth $100--Be nice if those were double sided vises on that machine too
The old Foley-Belsaw course my Dad took was in a red three ring binder, that sounds like it. Was a very simple course. Most of the locks I work on today still use
the same old technology in that old Foley course.

[ltdbjd]

I'd take a look at the PennFoster program (Pennfoster.edu). My first formal education in locksmithing was through them. Since then I've taken two other courses from them, and I've been happy with the info. It's pretty basic stuff, and you won't learn anything earth shattering. You'll get some basic equipment. The fully-auto duplicator I got at the end was pretty worthless as far as being a professional locksmith. If you're duplicating a key every now and then at home, it's not bad.

The only thing I can stress is that it is basic. You can learn the same thing by reading a few books and trying a few things on your own like picking, impressioning, and rekeying. But their format and pace is good. There are on-line tests you have to take, which ensures you'll really spend the time (or you'll fail - and yes, you can fail the program). And there are basic graded hands on projects you have to mail in.

I went to a brick and mortar locksmith school too. Looking back at it, there was much more hands-on learning there than "book learning." Together with PennFoster, I had a pretty good intro. I say intro, because when I finished school, it seemed that what I learned was how much I didn't know and how much there was really left to learn.

Hope the info helps.

[Jacob Morgan]

...
The old Foley-Belsaw course my Dad took was in a red three ring binder, that sounds like it. Was a very simple course. Most of the locks I work on today still use
the same old technology in that old Foley course.

The course from the Locksmith Institute of Little Falls, New Jersey came in a red binder. That outfit was active up to the early '80's as far as I can tell.

I have one of them, circa 1970, from eBay. Love it. Some of the material is a little old: it never tired of telling one to file down pins, there is a whole chapter on Schlage wafer locks, and not many people probably cut keys to code with a hand file anymore. But a lot of it was great. It included making disc tumbler keys by sight, how to pick interchangeable core locks to control, and had ways of entering locked out houses that I had not seen anywhere before. The materials that would have come with the course, or at least been loaned out, was impressive: a S&G safe combo , for example, was loaned out to use to practice not only combination changes, but how to take all the parts out and reassemble it. The course came with a small Ilco key machine.

There were a few dozen pages of exploded diagrams and service notes on various KIK locks. It even came with a complete set of automotive codes for GM, Chrysler, Ford, Studebaker, and American Motors. It had notes on foreign cars. A person back then could have taken the course and done anything that anyone would want to have done to an automobile of that era with just common tools and what came with the course.

I suspect that someone who took the course seriously would have had a good start. I have seen some of the Foley-Belsaw material, and it is not bad, but this course was better illustrated.

The average price sheet from 1970 that was in the binder listed $1.50 for cutting keys to code, an $8.50 service charge, and $2.50 per cylinder for master keying. $8.50 then is $52.70 now if you believe the official rate of inflation, so maybe things have not changed that much.

[Tyler J. Thomas]

I say intro, because when I finished school, it seemed that what I learned was how much I didn't know and how much there was really left to learn.

Hell, that's the trajectory of any serious locksmith career. It's incredibly humbling at times.