Issues with new BEST SFIC cores

[JMC02]

I am new to this and am running into major issues with some new cores that I keyed. I keyed the cores with a control key, change key, master key, and grand master key. I had some old cores and existing keys that I basically copied to the new cores for practice (All new hardware was used for the new cores). I had the old keys from the existing cores copied on both a standard key cutting machine and using a punch. The issue is, new keys won't operate the new cores. The old keys from the old cores that I copied work in the new cores without any issues. The new keys I had cut don't want to work. Using a key decoder, it looks like the new keys were cut correctly. I tried a few different locksmiths and keep getting the same result. Are the tolerances in the cores tight enough to cause such an issue if the cut is off even a minuscule amount? I know the lock is keyed correctly so there has to be something wrong with the actual key but I can't seem to figure it out for the life of me.

[cledry]

The tolerances are tight. Code cut the keys and try them.

I can get three generations of duplicates on my Silca Bravo III after that they still work for 2 generations but not smoothly.

[tpark]

I can think of a few possible issues. Best keys are measured from the tip, and it's possible that the cuts are offset slightly towards or away from the tip, causing the key to not work. This is especially a problem when cutting on a Framon 2 machine using the standard cutter - the cut has to be widened 10 thou or the key may not work. Measure the cut with a straight yoke micrometer - I try and cut them to within +- 2 thou and most cases to within 1 thou. If you're using the BEST punch it should work, but other brands (notably A1 Pak-A-Punch) don't always cut perfectly and it looks OK with the decoder, but it's not good with the micrometer. With the tip issue, sometimes you can fix that by taking a warding file and filing the tip stop a bit. If you're not using Best blanks, JET blanks work OK, but some of the other brands are thinner and also don't cut properly. If the key wasn't cut deeply enough, you can take a fine pippin file and carefully cut it to the proper depth and make it work.

If things are very carefully set up, it's possible to duplicate BEST keys sometimes, but my experience has been that these locks are picky, and if you use a code machine or the official punch on good blanks you can get consistent results. Anything else is a crap shoot.

[tpark]

I should also mention you can measure with digital calipers, you can get a good indication of what's wrong - the straight yoke micrometer probably won't tell you much more. If that looks OK, look at the tip of the key and see if the cut starts at the correct position from the tip - measurement is better, but you can often see the problem without measuring.

[Raymond]

My first opinion is the same as Tpark's. My best guess is that the cuts are all too far away from the tip which will make the pins ride up the ramp and not turn at all. If the cuts were too close to the tip, sliding the key back out a little would make it work. There is a problem with spacing if all the depths measure out about right. If your 'new cylinders' have the slide on steel retainer, you can slide it off and remove the plug. With the plug out, put the retainer back on so the key will stop correctly on the tip. Remove the plug with the working key and then put in the key that will not work. You will now be able to see exactly what the problem is and make the appropriate adjustments. I keep a following tool of the correct diameter in my pin box as one of my regular tools.

[dtsh]

I agree with the other comments, they new keys are probably off just a tiny bit but the tolerances are very tight and unforgiving.

I'd check the measurements with a caliper/micrometer and if they're off, double check your procedure and check the adjustments on your cutter, it may be good enough for most keys but off just enough to fail with these.

[JMC02]

I am trying to find someone with an actual BEST punch to make the keys for me. It is worth noting that the new keys do work in the old cores. I'm guessing this is because the old cores are worn and the tolerances aren't as tight. Does that sound right?

[dtsh]

I had the old keys from the existing cores copied on both a standard key cutting machine and using a punch. The issue is, new keys won't operate the new cores. The old keys from the old cores that I copied work in the new cores without any issues. The new keys I had cut don't want to work. Using a key decoder, it looks like the new keys were cut correctly. I tried a few different locksmiths and keep getting the same result.

I'm guessing this is because the old cores are worn and the tolerances aren't as tight. Does that sound right?

Mind you, I am a hobbyist, but it seems to me that if the old keys work in old locks and new locks with new pins but new keys don't, that the new keys are off. Am I correct in guessing that you're duplicating the old keys instead of cutting them by code? I've found the tolerances on the SFIC cores to be very unforgiving and on my sub-standard key machine I get more failures than good keys.

[jeffmoss26]

I was taught never to duplicate SFIC - always originate, whether it be from a punch or a code machine.

[JMC02]

I tried to duplicate the keys using both a punch and a standard cutting machine, neither worked particularly well. I don't know anyone with a BEST punch, but did find a locksmith with a Pro-Lock Blue punch. Does anyone have any experience with those?

[tpark]

I tried to duplicate the keys using both a punch and a standard cutting machine, neither worked particularly well. I don't know anyone with a BEST punch, but did find a locksmith with a Pro-Lock Blue punch. Does anyone have any experience with those?

I don't have a Pro-lok blue punch, but did the locksmith check the depth of the cuts after making the keys with the punch? The instructions for this machine have provisions for adjusting the depth and spacing, so it's possible that these adjustments may be out of whack if the machine is out of calibration. If you're not in a big rush, you might want to contact Tim at Pop's Locks - I've bought a number of cores with keys from him and they all worked flawlessly. I'm not associated with him except as a happy customer.

[cledry]

I was taught never to duplicate SFIC - always originate, whether it be from a punch or a code machine.

That is preferable but my machines can do 3 generations of dups no problem on Best SFIC.

I used to have an interesting Ilco Universal Code machine that was also a duplicator, it made perfect Best keys. We would put the key to be copied in the jaw with the copy dog and use the space and depth wheel to code cut to match. Very fast and accurate, we only used it for SFIC.

[JMC02]

If I can't find a place to do it right locally, is there a reliable place I can order the key online with a bitting code?

[Raymond]

I use a Blue Punch, Framon, or our ITL to originate all of our SFIC keys. Even the Blue Punch can be off by some and must be calibrated.

One reason we never used a standard duplicator on SFIC is because the older key machine vises were a little low. This caused the key to roll inward while being cut. It was alright to cut them but we had to put a round piece of metal in the key groove to prevent the rollover. If the key rolled and was not pulled out of the vice it was cut about .020" too high.

Have you checked your spacing yet?

[JMC02]

When I measure the cuts, most of them look good within reason. I'm thinking of picking up a digital caliper so I can get an exact comparison of the measurements between the keys.