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Issues with new BEST SFIC cores

Need help fixing or installing a lock? We welcome questions from the public here! Sorry, no automotive questions, please.
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WE DO NOT ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT AUTOMOTIVE OR MOTORCYCLE LOCKS OR IGNITIONS ON THIS FORUM. THIS INCLUDES QUESTIONS ABOUT PICKING, PROGRAMMING, OR TAKING APART DOOR OR IGNITION LOCKS,

Re: Issues with new BEST SFIC cores

Postby jeffmoss26 » 25 Jan 2017 21:43

JMC02 wrote:If I can't find a place to do it right locally, is there a reliable place I can order the key online with a bitting code?

Check out Tim Monte, papa777 on eBay.
"I tried smoking a blank once. I was never able to keep the tip lit long enough to inhale." - ltdbjd
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Re: Issues with new BEST SFIC cores

Postby billdeserthills » 26 Jan 2017 18:00

Have you examined the cut area of the new keys & the old keys for impression marks?
Many times when a key is very close you will see a mark that is made by the bottom pin(s) pressing into the key
If you do find marking, you can file a small amount where the mark is found and then the key should begin to work
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Re: Issues with new BEST SFIC cores

Postby Regina » 28 Jan 2017 23:44

I have a best punch. How many keys do you need?
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Re: Issues with new BEST SFIC cores

Postby JMC02 » 29 Jan 2017 11:20

Realistically, I only need one to test with. Preferable, I'd like two or there so I have some to play around with. How much would it be per key?
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Re: Issues with new BEST SFIC cores

Postby Regina » 29 Jan 2017 13:40

Assuming you are using A2 spacing, If you send the blanks, I'd do it for the cost of return postage. Email or PM me.
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Re: Issues with new BEST SFIC cores

Postby JMC02 » 30 Jan 2017 21:14

Sent you an e-mail
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Re: Issues with new BEST SFIC cores

Postby Raymond » 9 Feb 2017 18:21

Hello JMC02. We are all dying of curiosity out here as to what you have discovered to be the cause of the new keys not working. Please let us know as we learn from these examples. Thanks
Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool. Wisdom is not just in determining how to do something, but also includes determining whether it should be done at all.
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Re: Issues with new BEST SFIC cores

Postby JMC02 » 9 Feb 2017 19:35

Don't worry, I haven't forgotten about this. A user made a key for me on a Best punch and sent it out earlier this week. I'm just waiting on it to show up.
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Re: Issues with new BEST SFIC cores

Postby JMC02 » 12 Feb 2017 11:30

The new key I had cut on a Best punch worked without any issues. Comparing it to my other new keys, it does look like the 0 and 1 cuts were slightly off. I even went and picked up a digital caliper to measure the cuts exactly. On some of the newer keys, the spacing was slightly off too. The worn cores apparently have more leeway since they are more worn down. Regardless, now I know to find someone with a functional punch.
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Re: Issues with new BEST SFIC cores

Postby tpark » 12 Feb 2017 12:10

JMC02 wrote:The new key I had cut on a Best punch worked without any issues. Comparing it to my other new keys, it does look like the 0 and 1 cuts were slightly off. I even went and picked up a digital caliper to measure the cuts exactly. On some of the newer keys, the spacing was slightly off too. The worn cores apparently have more leeway since they are more worn down. Regardless, now I know to find someone with a functional punch.

How much out were the bad cuts? I have a third party punch that cuts high on high cuts, and I'm wondering what tolerance is acceptable.
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Re: Issues with new BEST SFIC cores

Postby JMC02 » 12 Feb 2017 12:53

From what I can find online, a 0 cut is supped to measure out at .318 and a 1 cut is supposed to measure out at .305. When I measure with my digital caliper, I got .309 for my 0 cut and .2975 for my 1 cut. Those cuts seem way off. Every other cut seems to be accurate. I'm going to rebuild the old cores since keys that are that far off shouldn't be able to operate the lock.
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Re: Issues with new BEST SFIC cores

Postby tpark » 12 Feb 2017 13:50

297 is closer to 294, which is 2. 309 is closer to 306. Thanks for sharing that info!
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Re: Issues with new BEST SFIC cores

Postby tpark » 12 Feb 2017 18:01

I did some experiments with a generic "J" core to get a sense of how tolerant the IC cores are for bad keys. I believe this one is a GMS core, and it's new. I pinned chamber 6 as a 5 cut with LAB pins, which is 256 according to my Framon manual. Starting at 255, I went down 2 thou at a time, and up 2 thou at a time. 249 would work with some jiggling, but at 251 it was still reliable. At 261, binding was noticable, but at 264 it was binding pretty hard. If the cuts were a off by only +/- 2 thou, that would be good, but +/-4 might start to get into the area where there could be problems. I have been cutting 5 as 256, but some documents have it as 255.


Image
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Re: Issues with new BEST SFIC cores

Postby RedE » 12 Feb 2017 22:58

tpark wrote:I did some experiments with a generic "J" core to get a sense of how tolerant the IC cores are for bad keys. I believe this one is a GMS core, and it's new. I pinned chamber 6 as a 5 cut with LAB pins, which is 256 according to my Framon manual. Starting at 255, I went down 2 thou at a time, and up 2 thou at a time. 249 would work with some jiggling, but at 251 it was still reliable. At 261, binding was noticable, but at 264 it was binding pretty hard. If the cuts were a off by only +/- 2 thou, that would be good, but +/-4 might start to get into the area where there could be problems. I have been cutting 5 as 256, but some documents have it as 255.


Image


I've noticed that the aftermarket cores aren't as tightly made as the real McCoys. Even some of the old Falcon cores I have are so poorly made that you can slide a #1 A4 master pin in between the control shearline. Another thing I've noticed is that when using a real Best core, it is a lot more forgiving if it's pinned with universal pins. I suspect that it's due to the large chamfer on the universals vs. the Bests. If you can hold the two different types of pins side by side, the difference is pretty obvious.
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Re: Issues with new BEST SFIC cores

Postby tpark » 13 Feb 2017 15:55

RedE wrote:I've noticed that the aftermarket cores aren't as tightly made as the real McCoys. Even some of the old Falcon cores I have are so poorly made that you can slide a #1 A4 master pin in between the control shearline. Another thing I've noticed is that when using a real Best core, it is a lot more forgiving if it's pinned with universal pins. I suspect that it's due to the large chamfer on the universals vs. the Bests. If you can hold the two different types of pins side by side, the difference is pretty obvious.


Good observations - do you know what the official tolerance is for BEST keys?
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