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Foley-Belsaw Order Form

Wondering which locksmith course to take? Looking for locksmith license info for your locale? This is the forum for you.

Re: Foley-Belsaw Order Form

Postby billdeserthills » 28 Mar 2014 23:42

zeke79 wrote:
billdeserthills wrote:I saw this posting & I wanted to say my Dad took the Foley-Belsaw course back in 1968, moved out west & became a part-time locksmith. I actually went through the same course while he was out on the road and I would be stuck in the shop with little to do. Hopefully it has changed a bit in the last
40+ years :P
I get the feeling being a second generation locksmith that any course a person takes will not likely do much more than teach ya to be dangerous. In that I mean you will likely learn enough to disassemble a lock, maybe not enough to put it all back together, that part is upon the student. No course can possibly teach every part of the intricate trade of locksmithing.


You're exactly right. The courses give just basic knowledge. To be in this trade I personally think you need a natural mechanical ability to some extent to be able to troubleshoot to any real degree.

I hate to say this but if no lockies in your area are open to a free labor apprenticeship then offer to sign a no compete agreement in exchange for the training. This will make them feel better about it on their end. If/when you go out on your own they are almost impossible for them to enforce through the courts.


I will definately keep that in mind the next
time I tell a would-be free apprentice No Thanks!
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Re: Foley-Belsaw Order Form

Postby Dan82 » 24 Apr 2014 17:50

Have they updated the courses yet? When I took them 8 years ago they were very outdated.
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Re: Foley-Belsaw Order Form

Postby YouLuckyFox » 24 Apr 2014 22:46

Seems OK to me, the Automotive section covers current model cars. Impressioning is covered well. With regard to safes it only discusses changing combinations and repairing (not opening them when they are locked.) When I graduated they sent me a pretty thick book on alarms as well as two diplomas. You get a key machine and they teach you how to use it and maintain it. All that to say, I really didn't learn anything new other than proper terms for locks, automotive information (removing ignitions, GM sidebar locks,) and safes (I didn't know anything about safes before taking the course.) Even graduating with the course, I have to say there is no way I'd be ready to be a operating locksmith. Every now and then someone will have me make a key for them (to a lock without a key) or perform a lock-out, but I pretty much pass on anything else, as I DO NOT want to go into something unless I am 100% confident that I'll do it the right way, I just refer them to the local locksmith (keep in mind I am not advertising myself, my apartment owner found out I had graduated with the course and asks me about things pretty regularly.) I tried going the apprenticeship route and the local locksmith said he had no interest in someone who had been trained through Foley-Belsaw. He recommended Lockmasters and said "seeya." Also, the local locksmith likes to hire within the family, as this is a small town. Currently I am content on finishing my BS - Welding & Fabrication Technology Management degree and then going to Lockmasters. While in college the Automotive Faculty will teach me how to remove ignitions and take care to reinstall the airbag correctly etc. Of course, then the chances are that locksmiths will say I'm over qualified, and not hire me on account of that :roll: . I don't hear too much good about the local locksmith anyway...so I'd really rather not get an apprenticeship from someone who doesn't teach me properly. I wish him the best, I think it is a bit immature to presume that a locksmith with 50+ years of experience whose paid off his business would jump at the chance to train me...from what I've learned of business, training is a very expensive process whether you are paying the trainee or not...

Cute story on the local locksmith from when I submitted my application: he showed me an ASSA Twin key and said, "you need to know your keys to be a locksmith." I correctly identified the key and he changed the subject by saying there was a $50,000 reward if you could pick the Assa Twin.

Sorry for the "Dear Diary" entry, I felt it would be good to relate my experience as someone who has finished the program recently.
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Re: Foley-Belsaw Order Form

Postby YouLuckyFox » 24 Apr 2014 22:58

Another note: the material DOES describe how to file pins (I also remember descriptions for filing plugs) which is a process that I would NOT advocate, also there are a lot of typos.
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Re: Foley-Belsaw Order Form

Postby billdeserthills » 25 Apr 2014 0:08

YouLuckyFox wrote:Another note: the material DOES describe how to file pins (I also remember descriptions for filing plugs) which is a process that I would NOT advocate, also there are a lot of typos.



I really think you are doing yourself a disservice by skipping on doing things you haven't done. I mean I used to catch the old man at it every once in awhile. A new ignition locking system came out (the alpha tech) next thing I knew he had one & was playing with his pre-cursor to the determinator keys.
I think if you can afford it, you should open an account at your local distributor. Buy the thing you want to learn how to install/make a key for, etc and Do It! I used to charge half price if I didn't know how to do something, when I got done & had learned at the client's request and I even got paid something for my trouble. Really helps your state of mind out too, reading the instructions and taking the time to really learn. Many distributors are only too glad to help guide you along, I know IDN for one or even Intermountain Lock will do everything but give You the kick in the rear you need to get the ball rolling.
You don't explain "anything else" but there are many things you can teach yourself, and while on the job. I can't tell you how many times while the client & their immediate family is getting comfortable while they discuss amongst themselves about "How he's gonna do this?" I have many times let them know that I don't have the faintest idea, but we would all find out presently. I find that at least some part of locksmithing is your presentation, so don't forget a good Taa Daa is always welcome after some heated effort at lockpicking, upon achieving the opening segment!
I like to think it goes with the bill presentation as well :lol:
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Re: Foley-Belsaw Order Form

Postby Eazy123 » 4 Feb 2017 23:29

So in 2017, what's the consensus of this program? Has anyone taken it in the past year and what did you think?

I've been into picking for maybe about 9 months now so I have a little experience with that, but I know it covers so much more. I have also hand filed keys via impressioning and had my first (and successfully completed) "locksmithing" gig where I had to re-pin three IC cores for a building this week. My father loaned me the binder for the New Jersey Locksmithing Institute course he took in his late teens, but that's from the 60s so I'm not sure it's as up to date as the FB course, plus he doesn't have his materials anymore.

I e-mailed FB earlier this week and asked if they could offer me a better deal on the course. They said the machine is $400 alone so $829 is an excellent deal. Was hoping to get the $599 deal some got ten years ago but...that was ten years ago.

I have a full time job doing graphic design, plus I freelance in design on the side so there's not a lot of time for an apprenticeship, but I'm not getting any younger and really love taking apart and learning how locks work and think maybe I could moonlight in the future in locksmithing. So would this still be a good deal in 2017?
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Re: Foley-Belsaw Order Form

Postby cledry » 5 Feb 2017 8:05

Eazy123 wrote:So in 2017, what's the consensus of this program? Has anyone taken it in the past year and what did you think?

I've been into picking for maybe about 9 months now so I have a little experience with that, but I know it covers so much more. I have also hand filed keys via impressioning and had my first (and successfully completed) "locksmithing" gig where I had to re-pin three IC cores for a building this week. My father loaned me the binder for the New Jersey Locksmithing Institute course he took in his late teens, but that's from the 60s so I'm not sure it's as up to date as the FB course, plus he doesn't have his materials anymore.

I e-mailed FB earlier this week and asked if they could offer me a better deal on the course. They said the machine is $400 alone so $829 is an excellent deal. Was hoping to get the $599 deal some got ten years ago but...that was ten years ago.

I have a full time job doing graphic design, plus I freelance in design on the side so there's not a lot of time for an apprenticeship, but I'm not getting any younger and really love taking apart and learning how locks work and think maybe I could moonlight in the future in locksmithing. So would this still be a good deal in 2017?


See if you can track down a used FB machine. They usually only fetch $100. Then see if they will do $429 on the course alone, explaining you already have one of their machines.
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Re: Foley-Belsaw Order Form

Postby TORCH [of KCK] » 5 Feb 2017 8:08

Foley - Belsaw....
Sorry, I'm no longer impressed by them,
As I was back in the late 80s / early 90s,
when I did the course.

They are a business, trying to make  $$$,
same as everyone else. Problem is, for as much as they deal with, they want to make their  $$$ & do as little as possible for it, like way so many these days.

The only reasons I say this is:
1> when I inherited my uncle's 1974's Belsaw institute addition,
(Not Foley-Belsaw)
it was word for word, course for course, & every test for test...
2> last year, I made multiple contact attempts to find out what information has been added. I asked very specifically for what I thought should have been added
Approximately ten +/- fields. Only response  (even verbally) check out the website. Which looked the same as what I already had.

So I gave up on my search.

Yes, if you pay in full...
They still send in full.
Dropping the tension wrench, is the subconscious screaming open before you can.
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Re: Foley-Belsaw Order Form

Postby Jacob Morgan » 5 Feb 2017 13:19

Eazy123 wrote:...My father loaned me the binder for the New Jersey Locksmithing Institute course he took in his late teens, but that's from the 60s so I'm not sure it's as up to date as the FB course, plus he doesn't have his materials anymore...


In my opinion, the Locksmithing Institute had a better course binder than Foley-Belsaw (comparing 1970 Locksmithing Institute to 1990 Foley-Belsaw). http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=63725 Have not looked at the latest material from Foley-Belsaw except for one course installment that got thrown into an eBay FB 200 key machine I bought. It was a carbon copy of the 1990 course.

My impression is that the Foley-Belsaw course goes over the basics. If you want to start getting into more of the current, or real world things that employers might wish apprentices knew something about, Foley-Belsaw did publish a "continuing education" book http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=63671. It looked good to me (it had current auto locksmithing, electric strikes, door closes, profile cylinders, etc.), but then I am just a hobbyist so I could be missing something.

Unless you need the basics, a piece of paper (the certificate), or you need to be prodded along to study something, I really do not see any reason to pay for the Foley-Belsaw course. Even recent used course binders plus lightly used or even unused FB 200's go for a lot less than the full price of the course. There is also the SOPL route, some people here have done that. There are also a couple of DVD based courses out there that go for less than Foley-Belsaw. If you are anywhere near Lexington, KY, Lockmasters and MBA are nearby and they both offer several day long courses (10 days?) on basic locksmithing. No doubt those in-person, hands-on courses would cost more, but would very likely be worth more too.

Bill's advice, above, from 2014 makes a whole lot of sense. I learned more about lever locks by buying a $3 lever lock from the junk store and taking it apart, etc., than I have from any book. Books and courses have their place, but nothing like just trying things out. $100 for a used FB 200, and $100 for some of the more popular key blanks and any misc tools you do not already have, would leave you with a few hundred dollars for a locksmith supply house and/or eBay to buy whatever locks you are interested in learning about.

One thing to consider would be an electronic subscription to the National Locksmith. That $25 a year covers the next twelves issues, but more importantly it comes with access to the back issues back to 2009. The magazine is probably not what it used to be and some articles are basically vendor advertisements, but it still has some good content in it. It shows recent developments in the industry, has occasional articles on the basics, and has multi-part articles on master keying, interchangeable cores, etc. There is a monthly photo-essay on opening a different safe, a monthly "shop talk" column that is usually practical, and the older editions had user-submitted tips that are sometimes interesting. There is also a monthly article on locksmithing a late model car--which is either interesting or would convince sometime that they want nothing to do with auto locksmithing. I have started going through the back issues year by year and copy-an-pasting the good articles to my PC so they can be printed out later and put in a binder for quick reference. Even if you just subscribe for one year, given the wealth of fairly current information in the back issues, it might be the best deal you could have for educational material.
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Re: Foley-Belsaw Order Form

Postby Eazy123 » 5 Feb 2017 18:17

Thanks guys. Maybe I'd be better off learning by other means and when the time comes, purchasing a better machine. I know the course provides tools and that's included in the cost too but I have a lot of those too.
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Re: Foley-Belsaw Order Form

Postby cledry » 6 Feb 2017 0:10

I think I should offer a locksmithing course. My boss & I with over 75 years experience between us are seriously considering such a venture.
Jim
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Re: Foley-Belsaw Order Form

Postby jimu57 » 6 Feb 2017 10:39

cledry wrote:I think I should offer a locksmithing course. My boss & I with over 75 years experience between us are seriously considering such a venture.


Do it. There is a good one already that is video based. Comes on a thumb drive with a workbook and another reference book.. Can get it with or without tools. In 30 days you could have it ready to market. I want to get a course myself.

Jim
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Re: Foley-Belsaw Order Form

Postby GWiens2001 » 6 Feb 2017 12:52

cledry wrote:I think I should offer a locksmithing course. My boss & I with over 75 years experience between us are seriously considering such a venture.


Let us know when you do it, Cledry.

Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
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Re: Foley-Belsaw Order Form

Postby Jacob Morgan » 16 Aug 2017 6:46

Heard from another member here, Tyler, that the Foley-Belsaw course was going away. Checked on their website and most of the links to training are gone now. The only training page I got to indicated that they were no longer taking new students. That went for all of their programs.

May explain why they have been running clearance sales the last couple of locksmith supply catalogs. Also, it looks like the tool sharpening catalog is being merged with another company.

In short, it appears that the whole company is in the process of closing up shop. I remember seeing their ads in Popular Mechanics thirty years ago. End of an era.
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Re: Foley-Belsaw Order Form

Postby billdeserthills » 16 Aug 2017 17:13

So the technology that Foley Belsaw was teaching was so old that they couldn't find even
one company that wanted to buy them out?
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