Older used safes that would be = TL15 (or better)

[jeff77]

I'm not sure how long the TL ratings have been around? I would imagine that there must be older used safes without TL ratings that would actually be equally difficult to break into?

Something about 2'x2' or 2'x3'

Can anyone suggest a few makes and models and/or what to look for?

[billdeserthills]

For the money spent I think you'll find better, harder to carry off protection with a gun safe.
The about 2'x2' Amsec BF series safe I did have weighed around 300 pounds, and could have been
carried off, but a 600+ pound gun safe isn't as easy to haul off

In my decades working as a locksmith it is seldom in my area that attempts are even made to burglarize
a safe, unless it is small enough to drag off. I've found several smaller safes while walking my dogs in the
desert that had been vandalized, in the past.

If You check into UL Listing the TL-15 is a 15 minute rated safe, even if you were to spend the money to get a TL 60
rating that is just an hour that UL rates the safe to be immune from breaching

[MartinHewitt]

Net working time! But just the door.

[billdeserthills]

Net working time! But just the door.

The sides are weaker than the door is
Anyhow the UL cheats--the timer is turned off until the tools are set up &
the tech is actually working

[jeff77]

Thanks for the replies guys. What ever I get it will be bolted down at minimum, and I might go to the trouble to encase it in concrete so access to the softer sides and back are going to be a PITA to get to. I can throw something nasty in the concrete, perhaps some aluminium and carbide chunks if I can find carbide somewhere?

I'm still inclined to get an older safe with the really thick steel door (cheap locally on Craigs list) and then beef it up, because I'm a tinkerer (tools galore) and the fun is in the process. I'm going to view it as "if I had to get into this thing without the combination how would I do it? and then make it such a PITA that any would be thief just gives up. Then prey (for me) that the lock never gets messed up;-)

I admit I'm speaking from ignorance, but if I beef up the soft spots on one of these old brutes, they just seem like they would be much more difficult to get into than anything resembling a RSC.

Assuming I bolt it down and beef up the sides and top, and place it against a wall, it seems like it would be tough to get in. My main concern is any vulnerabilities that these old safes have that are not obvious (to me). To my point until I watched a video yesterday that showed how thin the back was on one of these old safes with what looks like a 5" thick door, I assumed the sides and back would be at least 1" of solid steel.

Comments welcome.

[GWiens2001]

OK Jeff77, PLEASE keep this thread to general information. Info on beefing up security is alright, but no discussion on what parts are weak to what methods.

Other members - please keep destructive entry info in the advanced forums. General ratings and things like that are OK, but the rules are clearly posted.

GWiens2001 - moderator

[00247]

Do an objective assessment of your needs.

Where you live and type of dwelling. Do you secure your buildings, have proper lighting, a security camera?

Do you live a few blocks from "da hood" or are you out in the sticks?

What are you trying to protect? A few papers, a little extra cash, a few prized items? Or are you stocking ammo and weapons, silver and gold, survival items for the apocalypse or the next civil war to rid our great country of the radical leftist bastards THAT ARE DESTROYING IT?

Easy... breath... relax...

Anyway, be honest about what you are trying to accomplish. Most burglaries are smash and grab and don't have the time or smarts to get in a substantial safe. Crackheads are not smart enough to steal one of the new portable plasma cutters with built in compressor to open up safes. If you have extreme valuables you should have other layers of security like lighting and a wifi security with cameras.

While I have a modern Fort Knox gun safe, I prefer the old safes. But I do store the torch and plasma cutter in a different part of the building just in case. With 13 safes, first the lowlife will have to figure out which one might have something in it. If he chooses the Mosler screw door with it's 1" thick laminated burglar plate walls and 6" thick door... he is going to have a bad day.

[Squelchtone]

I'm not sure how long the TL ratings have been around? I would imagine that there must be older used safes without TL ratings that would actually be equally difficult to break into?

Something about 2'x2' or 2'x3'

Can anyone suggest a few makes and models and/or what to look for?

bro, can you just buy a f*cking safe already? I looked at your posts and you've been circling the wagon since 2013 when you asked about adding hardplate to a safe to shore it up, followed by questions about manipulation proof locks and about a spike proof Lagard digital lock.

We are happy to answer *some* general questions but not to be your personal on call security consultants. Your questions are specific enough where I would recommend hiring a qualified safe technician in your area and pay them for their good advice, then give them some business by actually buying a safe.

It really seems like you're overthinking the details and like 00247 asked, what exactly are you storing that requires TL level protection in a residential safe?

Lastly, please read the forum rules and respect my moderators when they tell you not to post things related to destructive entry. We have a trusted members area for discussing the drilling and construction of safes, and this public area for helping people dial an old safes combination or answer some other general question. Several of your posts and other members replies to you have already been moved to the trusted area in order to keep certain info from being visible to anyone who visits here. We are trying to be responsible and not teach bad guys how to crack safes.

Thank you,
Squelchtone

[billdeserthills]

Thanks for the replies guys. What ever I get it will be bolted down at minimum, and I might go to the trouble to encase it in concrete so access to the softer sides and back are going to be a PITA to get to. I can throw something nasty in the concrete, perhaps some aluminium and carbide chunks if I can find carbide somewhere?

I'm still inclined to get an older safe with the really thick steel door (cheap locally on Craigs list) and then beef it up, because I'm a tinkerer (tools galore) and the fun is in the process. I'm going to view it as "if I had to get into this thing without the combination how would I do it? and then make it such a PITA that any would be thief just gives up. Then prey (for me) that the lock never gets messed up;-)

I admit I'm speaking from ignorance, but if I beef up the soft spots on one of these old brutes, they just seem like they would be much more difficult to get into than anything resembling a RSC.

Assuming I bolt it down and beef up the sides and top, and place it against a wall, it seems like it would be tough to get in. My main concern is any vulnerabilities that these old safes have that are not obvious (to me). To my point until I watched a video yesterday that showed how thin the back was on one of these old safes with what looks like a 5" thick door, I assumed the sides and back would be at least 1" of solid steel.

Comments welcome.

Old enough safes predate portable power tools and as a result do not have hardened steel (hardplate) to cover
weak areas. My welder used to say he wanted to build his own safe, I showed him it was unreasonable to think
he could do it for less than a safe manufacturer could. As I said, I have seen very few safes burgled, so as long
as you get something large enough to avoid being carried off you may be fine with a soft steel old safe.

[jeff77]

Thanks everyone, I guess I watched one too many movies like the score, not to mention my O/C compulsions. Like I said the fun for me is in the process and I think I have enough insight now to build what I want.

00247 that is a piece of art ..... really cool.

too-da-loo

[MartinHewitt]

In the German forum someone is improving his fire safe with steel and aluminum sheet:

https://www.koksa.org/viewtopic.php?p=205168#p205168 and following pages

[jeff77]

In the German forum someone is improving his fire safe with steel and aluminum sheet:

https://www.koksa.org/viewtopic.php?p=205168#p205168 and following pages

Thanks but I don't understand German, I don't think I would make it past the registration;-)

[MartinHewitt]

Can you see the photos?

[jeff77]

Can you see the photos?

Martin,

No it just takes me to a login page.

[MartinHewitt]

Sorry.