Cary Safe Trouble With Combination

[Glen Hurst]

I just picked up an old Cary safe from the local co-op. I’m unable to get the combination to work. The discs (4) were loose in the safe.
-combination marks on the discs are 4-20-4-20 (from the disc furthest from the dial to the closest)
-with no discs the combination stops at 40 when turning to the right and the door latch operates.

The only pieces in the safe were the discs themselves and the back cover plate, there were no spacers, is this normal?

Is there a certain way that the discs need to be reinserted into the lock?

I feel like I’ve tried every way imaginable to use the combination and unlock the safe. What am I missing here?

Thanks in advance guys!

[Squelchtone]

Hello,

Some photos or a video would help us see what you have there. You can email pics to me at squelchtone @ lockpicking101 dot com or post them to your favorite photobucket/flickr/youtube etc and Copy/Paste the link to them here. Most of us upload photos to imgur.com and make them Hidden/Private but some folks are not that technical.

Squelchtone

[Squelchtone]

The wheels may be stamped #1 #2 #3 #4, look for those stampings.

Here's a video showing a typical lock from that era, this happens to be a Yale.



The washers always help, but let's see what you have.

[L4R3L2]

Looking forward to seeing pictures. If wheels are rubbing on wheels, I don't see how that could work.

[Squelchtone]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/190966071 ... res/457548


Here is the link to some photos, hope it works.

[Glen Hurst]

After digging around inside the safe I was able to find 2 washers. 1 must be lost.

[MartinHewitt]

You need at least three washers to separate the wheels (there are two or one protrusion(s) on the inside of these rings), a clip to hold all wheels on the post and probably a washer at the bottom of the wheel post.

[Glen Hurst]

I found the clip as well. Looks like I’m short a couple washers. Any ideas of where I can purchase them?

[MartinHewitt]

You can easily buy them if you have a time machine. Otherwise ... maybe a modern ring fits? Maybe you will find old replacement parts (incomplete lock, ugly safe) on ebay? What diameter has the wheel post?

[Squelchtone]

I found the clip as well. Looks like I’m short a couple washers. Any ideas of where I can purchase them?

You could call Boston Lock And Safe https://www.bostonlockandsafe.com/, the oldest lock and safe shop in America tell them you "have a 4 wheel Cary friction fence lock and need the washers to separate the wheels on the curb" If they have them and actually sell you some, I can't even think what they might charge for that kind of item. I'd pay $20 or more per washer since it's such a rare item and you happen to need it. I suppose you could figure out a way to make your own or approach a local sheet metal shop.

Squelchtone

[L4R3L2]

After digging around inside the safe I was able to find 2 washers. 1 must be lost.

That's great! You have options.

You can use one of the washers as a template to fabricate one more. You could use brass shim stock of the proper thickness. I even made one out of plastic milk jug plastic for one of my own locks and it works fine. I don't know if I'd trust it too much, so I used it as the furthest washer (between wheels 1 and 2), as that one sees the least amount of wear. I thought it was pretty hokey to use plastic, until I recently discovered Diebold actually used some type of plastic, probably nylon or Delrin for their washers in some locks. All the washers do is isolate one wheel from another and the tabs prevent torque from being transmitted and moving an adjacent wheel.

One other option that might work would be to leave the washer missing from between wheels 3 and 4, and set those two wheels to a single combination number, making your lock a 3 number combination. Just be sure you don't need to have some type of spacer washer in place so the drive pin doesn't rub.

[L4R3L2]

In addition, spacer washers are also just that, spacers. If you do leave one missing, be sure there's not so much play in the wheel stack that drive pins can skip past eachother. Test many times and be certain before ever closing the door.

[Glen Hurst]

Thanks for all of the into guys! Going to give it a try tomorrow. I’ll let you know how I make out.

[L4R3L2]

Without the wheels in the lock, you say the lock unlatches when turning the dial "right". By that, do you mean clockwise?

[L4R3L2]

One other option that might work would be to leave the washer missing from between wheels 3 and 4, and set those two wheels to a single combination number, making your lock a 3 number combination. Just be sure you don't need to have some type of spacer washer in place so the drive pin doesn't rub.

The bold is in error, and for that I apologize. The missing washer would be between wheels 1 and 2.
So, the order of assembly would be: (bearing or spring washer, if present); wheel 1; (plain spacer, if needed); wheel 2; spacer washer; wheel 3; spacer washer; wheel 4; retaining clip.

If made into a three number combination, the dialing order would be as follows. Note that "right" is clockwise, and "left" is counter-clockwise.
Assuming your lock unlocks with a right turn (clockwise), then you would dial L 5 times to your first number, R 3 times to your second number, L 2 times to your third number, and R to open.

If you have trouble making it work, dial the combination and leave the dial at the last combination number (without the final reversal to open). Carefully remove the wheel pack and observe if the gates are lined up. If not, you will need to deduce what needs to happen for the gates to align at the location of the fence when dialing. Even though wheels 1 and 2 will be set to the same number (if made into a 3 number combination), the movable flies do not always index to the same number when approached from the opposite side.