Number stamped on bottom of old mosler

[ManitobaSlim]

I picked up this old mosler safe recently and its missing the handle. There is a 5 digit number stamped on the bottom with a weird symbol before it. Could that be the serial number?

[Squelchtone]

I picked up this old mosler safe recently and its missing the handle. There is a 5 digit number stamped on the bottom with a weird symbol before it. Could that be the serial number?

Hello,

Hard to tell without a photo, could you share one of the front of the safe and one of the bottom where the number is stamped? Here's a an easy to use site to upload photos, https://imgbb.com/ and then copy/paste the links here.

What are your hopes in finding the serial number? We can help you get an approximate year or decade it was made, not much more than that.

Do you have the combination and can you open the door(s)?

Looking forward to seeing it!

Thanks,
Squelchtone

[ManitobaSlim]

I love history so i would like to know how old it is. I don't have the combination and it is locked shut. Im in no rush and am very mechanically inclined so i would like to try my hand at manipulation.

I will look into getting some photos posted, thanks.

[Squelchtone]

oops, I forgot to tell you where to upload photos, use https://imgbb.com/

[ManitobaSlim]

https://ibb.co/Qpgw9q1

https://ibb.co/WP25dF4

Any info you can provide would be greatly appreciated. I would like to know model, lock type, year and any other information anyone can think of. Thanks!

[Squelchtone]

Hmm *if* that actually is the serial number then your safe is from 1933/1934 but it feels older than that. I am also not sure if that dial is original to the safe. Not sure what the strange mark is next to the number, maybe something they did during the manufacturing process.

Try asking a local historian what the Dumas Club was in Edmonton or Regina. Are you located near either city? Heavy safes don't usually travel very far.

Model number will be tricky, thing manufactured back then didnt always have a model number the way we do these days, and if they did and were listed in a catalog or price sheet, that info isn't easy to come by. If anyone would know, our member MartinHewitt might be able to tell you.

[Squelchtone]

H.W. Laird was the distributor who sold the safe, he started that business in Regina in 1903 so at least we can assume the safe is not any older than that

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Laird

[ManitobaSlim]

Ah ic. Thats the one name i haven't looked in to. I think your right about the lock, if definitely looks newer in retrospect to the condition of the safe.
There's a chance i might be able to get my hands on the handle that went with it. If I will do ill post a picture.

[Squelchtone]

Ah ic. Thats the one name i haven't looked in to. I think your right about the lock, if definitely looks newer in retrospect to the condition of the safe.
There's a chance i might be able to get my hands on the handle that went with it. If I will do ill post a picture.

The interesting thing about the dial and dial ring is that they are not Mosler brand. That star logo at the opening index looks like a Sargent & Greenleaf dial. This safe was probably burglarized at some point and a replacement dial was put on it from whatever the locksmith/safe technician had in stock that would work.

Imagine if you had a Honda Accord and it was broken into and the radio stolen or vandalized. The local car audio shop you brought the car to replaces the smashed radio with a radio from a Toyota Camry because it's what they hand on hand and it fit in your dashboard. But people who know cars could immediately notice that it wasn't the radio that was supposed to be in that Honda.

The same applies to your safe. It's still a very old Sargent & Greenleaf lock, probably has been on that safe for at least 50 years, and I'm sure it opens the safe when the correct combination is dialed. The lock mechanism inside the door could be original, or might also be a replacement, you'll find out more when you get the safe open.

Your safe is what is commonly called a thick wall fire safe. The door is about 4 inches thick. The original lock had a 4 number combination. Read up on "picking up wheels" and you can turn the dial and count how many wheels your safe has which will tell you if your combination is 3 numbers (20-40-60) or 4 numbers (20-40-60-80)

Hope this helps,
Squelchtone

[ManitobaSlim]

Heres a close up of the lock. Can anyone identify it?

https://ibb.co/4t6kxpW

I was using the lever to try to feel the gates and i believe i found 3 at 20, 30 and 40 give or take 1 or 2.

I tried entering it in a few different ways and i am wondering if i am making a mistake in my sequence of operations.
I tried both LRL and RLR. 3 rotations then land on first number on the 4th. 2 rotations stopping on 2nd number on the 3rd, 1 then stop on second.
Does that sound right?

Also I seen some videos of people moving the dial a bit after they enter the sequence to I guess pull the lever. Should I be doing that?

[billdeserthills]

I would try a 4-3-2-1 style of dialing. 4 turns to the first number, 3 turns to the second #. This way the final turn will be retracting the bolt. I would try RLRL first and LRLR if that doesn't work.

[Squelchtone]

Heres a close up of the lock. Can anyone identify it?

https://ibb.co/4t6kxpW

I was using the lever to try to feel the gates and i believe i found 3 at 20, 30 and 40 give or take 1 or 2.

I tried entering it in a few different ways and i am wondering if i am making a mistake in my sequence of operations.
I tried both LRL and RLR. 3 rotations then land on first number on the 4th. 2 rotations stopping on 2nd number on the 3rd, 1 then stop on second.
Does that sound right?

Also I seen some videos of people moving the dial a bit after they enter the sequence to I guess pull the lever. Should I be doing that?

What you are probably feeling is the wheels picking up, you don't feel the gates normally. Wheel pick up position does not equal lock combination.

The lock is hard to tell, as I said in last post, that dial does not belong on that safe normally, so who knows what kind of shenanigans the locksmith did years ago. Could be the Mosler lock inside and a S&G dial on the outside, could be an S&G dial AND S&G lock inside, who knows. could be 3 number combination now, could be 4, could be set to all 1 number making it a 1 number combination.

And yes, after dialing in the numbers, there's a good chance you have to turn the dial to a certain spot or until the dial stops turning, which means the bolt inside has been retracted and the handle (or stump of a handle) in your case can be turned to retract the main door bolts.

To figure out how many combination wheels your safe has inside:

Turn the dial Right 5 times all the way around and stop (doesn't matter where really, but you could start at 50 on the dial and keep turning 5 times around so 50 passes by 5 times.

Now start turning Left 5 times all the way around and make note of every time you feel or hear the wheels inside pick up one more wheel. (I'll try to find you a video of wheels being picked up so that phrase makes more sense)

It should feel a little harder to dial each time around, you should feel the pick up of 3 or 4 wheels until you keep turning Left the 6th and 7th time around and you wont feel or hear anything else picking up.

There might be one spot on the dial that you always feel a little bump in the road, that's more than likely the drop in.

Hope this helps,
Squelchtone