Cracking an old Cary safe

[larrydguenther]

Hola!

I have an old Cary safe that I am trying to open.
https://ibb.co/bjpbbzxb
https://ibb.co/5XN4JW36

This is what I think I know:
1) It is not a direct-entry fence (feel of dial does not change with CW or CCW pressure on handle)
2) 4-wheel mechanism (using the 'whack test' in both directions, multiple times, I pick up four wheels)
3) appears to be a friction fence (continuous rachety click and sound as dial is turned)
4) there are scratches/marks at 17-1/2 and 92 on the dial (see second pic)
5) loose key? Regardless of where wheels are parked, or where dial is turned there is a one-increment motion before the cam seems to turn.
6) The dial gets a little stiffer when I pick up the 2nd wheel and much stiffer when I pick up the 1st wheel.
7) Regardless of where I park the wheels (though I didn't try 17-1/2 or 92 - duh!) I cannot feel any contact points.

I am managing the building where this safe was left. It is an old Odd Fellows building and the Lodge was closed. The building is now owned by the California Odd Fellows. I am also the locksmith for Yolo County in California and have 'manipulated' four safes to get the combos, all of which have been open (3 S&G, 1 HHM). Watching youtube videos and reading "The National Locksmith Guide to Manipulation," has taught me a lot, but this project feels like I am now out of the kiddie pool The good news is that there is no time constraint on getting this safe open. I am very averse to drilling.

[MartinHewitt]

¡Hola!

Most locks the Carys had were three wheel locks. There are two exceptions. The first is a direct entry fence lock, which we can rule out from by the peculiarities you discovered. The other is a rare (for Cary) Yale 062-1/2. But this one should not have just "Cary" on the dial. What is the serial number on the handle? Is it between 18000 and 23343? If you did not count 4 wheels, but only 3, then the most likely candidate would have been the Yale Y6. So please check your wheel count. The drive cam is not part of the wheel count.
The one increment motion comes from the gears. There is a gap between the two gears which have to be passed after change of direction to pick up the next gear again.
Increased resistance with increased number of wheels moving is normal. The friction of the wheels on the wheel post adds up.
Both Yale locks open with a turn right to stop. The Y6 will have a CP only in this direction. The 062-1/2 will have its main CP also on a right turn, but there might be a slight indiction on left turn, because it is not a true friction fence lock. Similar gear mechanism, but there is a small spring loaded pin instead of the friction assembly. CPs are often around 0. The fence might be worn from long use, so that feeling the CP gets difficult. Play around a bit. Try different wheel positions. Sometimes you can find a better spot, where the wheels sit deeper and the CP is starting to appear. Playing around with it might also loosen up some of the petrified grease and sharpen your senses.

This safe is in great condition and manipulation is definitely worth it. I learned also manipulation from the National Locksmith Guide.

Have fun!

[larrydguenther]

Hi Martin,

I am pretty sure it is a 4-wheel lock, but will check again. I will also get the serial number from the handle. I will be up there this weekend (02/28/26-03/01/26). It is a 3-hour drive from my residence, so there may be long gaps in updates.

From your comments, it sounds like there is a left CP (i.e. felt with R rotation)? Given that I thought it was a friction fence, I was focused on looking for a right CP. So much to learn!

Thanks for putting the word out to the community! I really appreciate it

[larrydguenther]

OK. Definitely 4-wheel lock.
Number on handle is: 145011 (all on 1 line)
Feels like a LCP (i.e. turnig dial to right) at 1.
Ran AWL every 2 incs, seemed to get a higher reading (1-3/8) at 64, amplified and feel good about higher reading from 62-64-1/2, so indication at 63-1/2?
https://ibb.co/XfZq80Pz

The gumminess of the dial is brutal, at least for a beginner

[MartinHewitt]

The serial does not match the rare 4-wheel Yale, but maybe someone replaced the original lock or it was a custom configuration. Most friction fence locks open on a left turn and have therefore an LCP. Manipulating it as a 4-wheel lock will get it open even if it has only 3 wheels. So an error there doesn't hurt much.

63 1/2 / 64 looks like a good position. I like to connect the dots to get a better grasp of the graph.