Combination trick

[Sabin37]

Some of you probably already know this but for those of you who don't, I spent an hour or two inspecting the gates inside combination locks and figured out that there's two possible combinations for every lock. I just realized that if the wheels inside the lock can line up one way, they should have the ability to line up from the other direction also.

For this trick to work you have to start by turning the dial counterclockwise for the first number, then clockwise for the second, then counterclockwise for the last number.

If you have a Master lock, all you do is subtract 7 from your first number, add two to your second number, and your last number will be the same since the dial is directly attached to the third wheel.

If you have a Dudley lock, you add 13 to your first number, subtract 4 from your second number, and your last number is the same since the dial is directly attached to the third wheel.

If you are adding/subtracting from your number and it goes past zero, just count the ticks for the numbers individually. For example, if your first number was 4 and you had to subtract 7, then your new first number would be 37 (on a Master lock).

Let me know if this works for you.

[MrB]

Indeed it does work. I worked it out one day, then later I discovered that it was a pretty well known thing. Of course, now you have two combinations to forget instead of just one, so you end up being worse off than if you didn't know.

[rayman452]

I actually found something similar when trying the dudley combination. When I go to feel for the sticking points, I knotice only 4 will stick out, and it is usually 3 of them the combination. The points will be directly across from other numbers, which is plus 30. So what you may have is just a slighly weared of lock gates. Try this on anotehr dudley, and see if you get the same thing.

[killerangelz]

umm. please clarify... how do I know the first number or second...
my combination lock is 33,39,13
it doesnt make sense...

[Sabin37]

You turn the dial counterclockwise to start. Then it's clockwise for the second number and counterclockwise for the last number.

Are you trying the trick with a Master or Dudley lock?

[hzatorsk]

FWIW: The offsets are 8 and 4 for most master 1500 locks.

[noctorum]

Thanks for the info

[Guesss]

that is interesting...

i never really thought about it before but that makes complete sence. I wonder though...

on our mail box locks we have to go l-r-l-r and the last r is to realease the latch that holds the door shut. does anyone think that this would not work with the two combo philosophy? i would test it but i am not sure what the offsets would be because it isn't a master or anything lock.

thoughts?

[raimundo]

wouldnt this reversal of the combination only work in locks where the locking dog could be withdrawn by the final gate fixed to the dial shaft does not require rotation in a specific direction to operate the locking dog? Obviously I did not carefully read all the posts, I am just saying.......

[mr_edward_lee]

I don't get this concept.
Since I have a combination lock with the following combo: 43-25-50

[Chucklz]

Raimundo, you can work a similar trick on say a S&G group 2 lock (requires dial rotation to retract bolt). You enter your modified combination, turn back to "grab" the bolt, then turn right as usual to retract it.

[Sabin37]

I don't get this concept.
Since I have a combination lock with the following combo: 43-25-50

Since the first number in your combination is odd and the last number is even, I will assume that it is a Dudley lock. If it's a Master lock, you do not know your exact combination.

When you enter your combination, instead of making your first rotation clockwise, make it counter-clockwise. This will allow you to input a different combination and still open the lock. The combination that will work for you should be 56-21-50. Let us know if it works.

[mr_edward_lee]

What the hell!!!
That's amazing! It does work.
What is the trick to that?

Since the first number in your combination is odd and the last number is even, I will assume that it is a Dudley lock.

Is it the same vice versa?
If the first number is even and the last number is odd?
How about odd and odd or even and even?

[Sabin37]

After I came to the conclusion that your lock was a Dudley, all I did was add 13 to your first number and subtract 4 from your second number.

The reason I knew you had a Dudley lock was because the combination for a Master lock is always all even or all odd. Your combination contains both even and odd numbers, hence it's a Dudley.

[vector40]

Do not inquire too closely into the secretz of the Dudley Crackers.

The last normal forumite to do so... well, we don't talk about him.