Question about removing pins

[captain ahave]

Hi all, first time posting.

I am new to lock picking and decided to work with a cheap lock from Home Depot. It is a Defiant – your basic 5 pin tumbler I would assume.

I have been able to pick it about 4 times now, but when I do I usually don’t see it coming. I am usually just poking around trying to find a pin that is not set and setting it. I would like to reduce the # of pins so that picking the lock would be slightly easier - taking it down to 3 or 4 pins would be best. I have been reading the forums for the last few days and noticed some talk about removing pins to ease the picking process. I understand the logic, but when looking at my lock I don’t really see a way to easily remove/insert pins. One of the locks has a slide cover that covers up the back end of the springs but I have the feeling once I remove it putting the cover back on will be a challenge if at all possible. The other lock looks almost impossible to remove pins without some odd form of a tool. I can see pin port holes(?) on the top but don’t see a way to open them up.

I am including a pic of the 2 locks, perhaps I can get some feedback on how to gain access to these pins and what if any tools will be needed?

You can also see the hack-job of a pick I made [first time, gimme some slack :p]. I have a feeling that I am over-setting pins while I am trying to set a pin behind it - could the design of my pick be the cause? Or is it more on my skill/technique. Would a more hooked hook pick design be better suited?
http://img227.echo.cx/img227/1641/cimg05524pr.jpg

[Elijah]

I've never worked on Defiant locks, but here is one thing you may be able to try out: Take a look at the back of the lock, the part that would be inside the door if installed correctly. Examine for any clips of any kind, or something holding it in place and remove it. Insert the correct key, turn it to unlock, and push the cylinder out from the back. Maybe this will do something for you, maybe not =)

The holes you see on top of the whole lock system aren't exactly the best place to take pins out of. Usually, those holes are SO tight that you would have to ruin some pieces to remove all the pins from it. Removing the cap on the other one might be the only choice later, and you may have to replace the cover if it is unusable afterwards.

-Elijah

[locksmistress]

Welcome, captain.

Elijah beat me to the post so I'll delete half of this.

Ok.

The other thing you might find on the back of the cylinder is a screw on cap held in place by a little spring loaded pin. If that is the case, depress the pin with a pokey tool and uncrew the cap.

Then, with the key in the cylinder, etc... procede with caution.

If none of this seems relevant, go ahead and post us a shot of the back of the core - that might help.

[Chucklz]

For now, I would only advise removing pin stacks from the cylinder on the left in your picture, ie the one with the metal cap over the bible. This is simply an issue of ease. Put the cylinder in a fairly large sized plastic bag. Take a small screwdriver, and pop that metal bit off. Springs and pins probably will go flying, but the bag should contain them all.

[capt.dunc]

you may able to slide off the top cover plate on the left lock (back the way) if you're lucky you'll also be able to slide it back in after repinning, if not you can just place it loose to hold down the pins and springs, then use a bit of gaffer tape to hold it in place while picking.

[Ezer]

Locksmistress's post is right. The Defiant deadbolt uses a screw cap and a retaining pin. Just push the pin down and unscrew the cap. Remember to be careful to not lose the pin you're pushing down or the spring under it when you have the cap off.

If you don't have a plug follower yet, after you turn the plug 90 degrees either way and start pulling it out, you can just do what I used to do, which is just cover the other end with your finger.

The thing is though that no matter how long I worked on my Defiant deadbolt when I first got it, I could never pick it pin by pin before I accidentally had it picked first. My advice is play with it 'till you can reliably open it almost everytime. Then go get a somewhat nicer lock and work on pin by pin on that. It worked for me.

[captain ahave]

wow, thanks everyone for the speedy reply!

Ill post another pic [be warned, it is higher res so it will prob be oversized for the forums]


Someone mentioned a pushpin and screw off type removal for the back of the plug. I was able to find a push able pin, but don’t know what it unlocks quite yet. My guess is that it will enable the brass fitting to rotate - hopefully rotating until free.

I think I will keep one of the locks intact and mess around with the other. That way I can learn about the lock from both perspectives and if I break it in the process I still have something to pick at.

I noticed that both of the locks have the pin and screw device on the back. I wanted to take apart the lock with the sliding cover but now that I know of 2 options which would be best?: Taking off the cover [it looks like cheap metal and will deform IMO] or opening up the back and pushing out the plug?


Here is the oversized pic:
http://img110.echo.cx/img110/5995/cimg05566aj.jpg

[captain ahave]

sorry for the double post =/ I found no edit option.


I think I have all my questions [for now] answered; I ended up taking out the back screw cap and turning the slug and removing. I supposed I should have been expecting what happened but when I pulled it out I got a huge mess - forgot to use something to follow behind the slug.

So I ended up with a bunch of keys flying everywhere and their corresponding springs shortly after. Two of the springs however manage to get them stuck in the slug and when I went to use a method of brute force to get them out I ended up overstretching them. This leaves me with only 3 working cylinders, which I suppose was my original goal.

Thanks everyone for their help, I now know a whole lot more about the lock and even locksmithing in general. Now all I have to do is pick up the keys from the carpet and try to find which cylinder they go back in. fun.