Is this possible?

[E-Mind]

Is it possible to have more than one pin and driver in a each hole (not pin-in-pin, but multiple pins next to each other)

Considering that the buttom pins are the same length you would not need a special key - but it should make it harder to pick since you need to pick smaller pins and you would have to pick each "pin" multiple times to set each "part of the pin" in the shearline - Is this possible? would it add any considerable picking difficaulty?

[cracksman]

E-mind wrote:

Considering that the buttom pins are the same length

umm......do you mean top pins? I'm confused

[toothpaste100]

Is it possible to have more than one pin and driver in a each hole (not pin-in-pin, but multiple pins next to each other)

Considering that the buttom pins are the same length you would not need a special key - but it should make it harder to pick since you need to pick smaller pins and you would have to pick each "pin" multiple times to set each "part of the pin" in the shearline - Is this possible? would it add any considerable picking difficaulty?

Are you talking about master keyed locks?

[vector40]

Sounds like he means something like two semi-circular pins side-by-side in each chamber.

[Chrispy]

Sounds like he means something like two semi-circular pins side-by-side in each chamber.

That's what it sounded like to me. One problem I can see with this is the likelihood of frequent jams with pins (or semi-pins) getting stuck either at the shear line or against the shell.

[E-Mind]

Sounds like he means something like two semi-circular pins side-by-side in each chamber.

correct - two or more very small pin sets side by side in the same channel...

[E-Mind]

Sounds like he means something like two semi-circular pins side-by-side in each chamber.

That's what it sounded like to me. One problem I can see with this is the likelihood of frequent jams with pins (or semi-pins) getting stuck either at the shear line or against the shell.

why would the get jammed? won't they act in the same way as a regular pin?

[Chrispy]

Pins rotate when in their respective chambers, either by key action or spring action. Let's say every 1 in 250 key actions, the pin (or semi-pin) is at such a rotated position that the spacing angle will catch the split between the two halves of the pin. It's not a big deal, jiggling the key, removing then re-inserting it, or banging the cylinder a bit will dislodge the stuck pin. It would be annoying though

[E-Mind]

What is the "spacing angle"?
I'm not sure I understand

[cracksman]

I'm still confused, sorry I'm a bit slow, but even if the bottom pin was four interlocking pins, it would only take the raising of one to push the top pin above the shear line. If, however, your top pins were also 4 interlocking pieces of a pin, and there was a guide to keep them aligned with the bottom, you may have something. I don't see how they could have a normal key.

A very good ant-pick technique, following your logic, would be a bottom pin that is actually, say 4 interlocking pins, each quarter of the pin would then independently set a equally sectioned top pin. As for the bottom pin, however, each section would be of a different height, therefore creating the necessity of picking each pin section in a 5 pin lock 4 times, or 20 picks a lock, add 1 of the 4 at the shear line for each and it might dramatically reduce successful bumping techniques.

I'm not sure this is what you mean, it is a good idea in theory however, although milling little interlocking pins would not be cheap. just my 2 cents

[vector40]

I'm not sure how that'd be any better than just ACTUALLY having more pins, though.

[Chrispy]

Spacing angles are the "hills" in between the flat bits on the key. They're no more than 45 degrees.

Basically (I think) the idea is that each pin in a 5-pin lock will have 2 halves. This makes 10 "pieces" that must be lifted to the shear line. When one half (piece 1 of 10) is lifted to the shear line, the other half must also be lifted, as well as the other 9 pieces (4 chambers worth of pins + 1 half of the 5th pin) to make the plug turn.

E-Minds idea, in theory would work, essentially creating 10 pins (as vector said.... adding more pins)

Hope that's clear.

[E-Mind]

interlocking the pins is a good idea - but having different hights - how are you going to make sure the buttom interlocking pin combination won't rotate inside the channel and render the key useless? I guess if the holes are squere instead of circular that would keep them in place...

cost of milling - I don't know why large scale production would be more expensive - its just need a seperate production line for each piece and they can be assembled together when the lock is keyed.

[Chrispy]

Sorry, that should read:

When one half (piece 1 of 10) is lifted to the shear line, the other pieces must also be lifted, (4 chambers worth of pins + 1 half of the 5th pin) to make the plug turn.

[cracksman]

O.K. how about a triangle?

One diamond (Lucky Charms style) and 2 triangles, three cuts per pin?

I agree with why not more pins? but having the length of a five pin lock (and key) and still keeping the integrity of thick enough (combined 3 in 1 pins) you are talking a 15 pin pick.