Dudley Combination Locks

[jadelicia]

Hello,

I'm new to the forum; I just signed up to get help with a lock that I've lost the combination to. It's a black dialed Dudley lock.

From what I can tell, the sticking points are at:

56
51
44-45
38-39
32-33
26-27
21
14-15
9
3


I'm not quite sure I understand max/min points, so I'll leave that for now. Do you think any of you can figure out the combination? My initial thought was that 56 is the last digit, but perhaps I'm being presumptious. Thanks.

[digital_blue]

Question for the Dudley Cracking Team:

After 17 pages and 240 posts, are you guys able to successfully get one of these yet? I admit I haven't been following this thread really close, but all I recall is a lot of people posting sticking points. I don't remember anybody posting saying that they had figured out the combo based on this. Has it been done at all yet? Or a few times, but with no consistency? Or have you been able to post a small number of possibilites that will inveriably lead to a successful open?

I'm just trying to figure out where you are at with this endeavour.

db

[TOWCH]

That's kinda what I've been wondering. I still see no progress in finding a correlation between sticking points and a combo. There's no logic behind it. This post reminds me of my failure to follow through on my promise to work on a real method to open these. I'll get back on that.

[Mad Mick]

*Tongue-in-cheek*
I've read 'The Da-Vinci code' and was wondering if anyone knows where the Holy Grail can actually be found?

[TOWCH]

Anyone wanna make a prototype? I won't have time to do it myself for awhile. I'm sure there's some tongs of some sort out there that would be easily adapted to fit the need.

[davetran]

Hey,

I haven't used this lock in years. I think it's about seven years old and I forget the combo. It's a Dudley, black lines on the dial and black knob.

The sticking points seem strange; too much of a pattern. It seems to stick the same way CCW as CW.

0-3
6-9
12-15
18-21
24-27
30-33
36-39
42-45
48-51
54-57

If you guys can help, that would be great! I'd like to use it again instead of buying a new lock. I noticed that you managed to help someone else a few posts back.

Thanks,
Dave

[Monty_29]

hi i'm new
i have forgotten my comination lock. It has a black dial and if it helps it has a B on the back.

The sticking points are:

59-2
5-8
10-14
16-20
23-26
29-32
35-38
41-44
47-50
53-56

If you could help it would be great. I really don't feel like going out to buy a new lock.

Monty

[TOWCH]

Anyone wanna make a prototype? I won't have time to do it myself for awhile. I'm sure there's some tongs of some sort out there that would be easily adapted to fit the need.

I just realized how cryptic this is. The three circles inside the shackle are steel rods. There are two identical tongs on the left hence the 2x. One on each side of the shackle. They have rubber bands on the end for a constant consistent source of pressure. These expand the steel rods to pull the shackle. The long tongs on the right with the x1 are for taking a measurement of give in the shackle. The reason they are so long is to exagerate the give in the shackle as it would be difficult to measure accurately enough otherwise.

The procedure goes like this:
You set up the pair of tongs, and release pressure on the shackle by squeezing the rubber band end. Rotate the dial to a sticking point, allow the pair of tongs to apply pressure, and expand the long tongs between the three bars next to one of the pair of tongs. Then use a set of inside calipers to take a reading, record it for the sticking point and then move on to the next. Repeat all around the dial and the sticking point that allows the most give indicated by the longest reading is most likely the gate.

This assumes that the fence is bottoming out on the false notches and not the other two wheels in the wheel pack. I don't own one of these locks so I'm not sure what the fence bottoms out on. If you know what you're doing, you should know how to modify the procedure if it is in fact the wheel pack it is hitting.

If needed I can draw these tongs in more detail and add a view from above.

[Lockmaster786]

hey all, i'm bak, i was gone a while, but this is my fav thread. can anyone bring me up to speed on how far we gotten on cracking our dudleys.

[Mad Mick]

hey all, i'm bak, i was gone a while, but this is my fav thread. can anyone bring me up to speed on how far we gotten on cracking our dudleys.

Your best bet would be to go back and read the entire thread.

[Lockmaster786]

well i'd rather not, im just looking for general information

so on a scale of 1 to 10, how close are we to cracking the dudley.

1 being not even close, and 10 being 'cracked'

[Mad Mick]

Don't expect the information to just be thrown at you, you have to help yourself a little. You could do this more effectively by either:
a) Having a look through the thread and concentrate on the posts by Rayman or Orange, since they are the main ones 'doing' the cracking. (skim over the ones submitting sticking points, jokes, mild sarcasm etc.)
or...
b) PM either of the above.

They are better suited to giving you a definitive answer.

[LiamGray]

I'd say not as low as one, and definantly not ten. So somewhere in between, take your pick. 4? I dunno, science and stuff happens in leaps and bounds so we could go from 1 to 10 by sheer fluke, know what I mean? Anyway, I'm workin on some ideas.

[LiamGray]

To some it up in the way I understand it: there are "sticky points" on the dial. for example, pulling up the lock arm (while it's still locked shut) and turning the dial will show you a "sticky point". The dial will lock and only turn a little, perhaps between 55 and 1 or 1 and 4. PLUS I think we know that there are some sticky points where the arm will come up more than others. I think they are calling these min and max points, as the is an opposite sticky point that comes up less than average. So, after finding the sticky points, the theory is that the correct combo can be found by the ones with the biggest difference (????)? I'm not sure what the next step is but I hope I've updated you a bit, lockmaster786.

[TOWCH]

According to Digital Blue's caliper readings ealier in the thread:

"Third wheel (with all the false gates):
Outside diameter to outside of false gates: .812"
Outside diameter to inside of false gates: .746"
Measurement from notch to notch on false gates: .197 (same for true gate)

Other 2 wheels:
Outside diameter: .762" "

The fence is hitting the other two wheels. Not the bottom of the false
notches. On top of that, the real gate is the same width as the false
gates. The only way sticking points are going to tell you anything
about the gates would be a modification of safe manipulation. Walking
you through it would be a step away from walking you through safe
manipulation which is not allowed in the general forums. However, I
believe this link is fair game:
http://www.crypto.com/papers/safelocks.pdf

If you can understand the concepts behind that, going from contact
points to using a sticking point to take measurements is not a very
big leap.

If you are determined to do this with sticking points the above is
probably your best bet. The method I described in my last two
posts is more direct, and I suspect is more likely to succeed.