S.E.M / GTV "manipulation protection" & "

[FuSL]

On monday on german tv there was a report about lockpicking and bumpkeys (only short and no details - well, it's tv :] ), and they presented a lock which is said to be kind of "pick proof"... they showed some ssdev-guys - which claimed it being not openable..
So.. I wonder how exactly this lock works, basically it's a normal pin tumbler lock with some special.. I don't know the word... near the main pins... which are supposed to block the rotation of the inner cylinder..
ok, some links:
http://www.semtechnologie.de/produkte_1.htm
http://www.semtechnologie.de/technik.htm
http://www.gtv-schliess-systeme.de/Down ... il%202.pdf

so.. who knows how it works?

I'm not exactly sure... I guess those extra-things only stay "in", if the pins are kept in place by the key, with picking or bumpkeying there's space for the pins to move and let those extra-things get in the core to block it... not sure about that...

and more important: how to pick it? :]

I have no idea, as I think it isn't too easy to insert something thin between core and outer cylinder, as well as it might not be too easy to keep all the pins down from the inside.. so... ideas, anyone? experiences with it? :]
(I'm too stupid :] )

I'm gonna buy one soon and take a look at it.. :]


/edit

oh and besides it's supposed to have an asymetric keyway for making it harder for picks to enter and even reach the pins..

[Al]

Another set of springs and drivers so you have to pick it twice. Should be easy as the pins will not enter the additional driver chambers.

[FuSL]

uh... yeah, that sounds kinda plausible... darn, I'll never become a good lockpicker, I lack of skill AND of creativity :]

wonder why the ssdev guys haven't come up with something like that.. maybe they were paid ;]

ok, I'll get one asap and check this way out.. :]

/edit

hmn... you think picking is so easy there?
cause it's spool-alike pins and small discs... which might be hard to be kept back in their chambers when picked cause they're so small... hnm... maybe not... I don't know nothing :]

[SFGOON]

It would appear that a simple plug spinner would overcome the second set of pins, provided it wasn't overrotated.

[FuSL]

yeah, probably.. might even be appliable when bumping...
why don't I come up with something like that... ah, wait, I'm a newbie :]

[Chucklz]

I have heard about this lock. It is quite pickable and bumpable. Sort of. You can pick/bump it and get i think up to 15 degrees of rotation before the second set of pins slams into the plug making it compelely inoperational. Toool has attempted plug spinners, pushing the pins down, filling the keyway with thread to keep the picked pins up, and nothing has worked for them as far as I know. Apparently the springs are quite strong on the secondary pins.

I think one might be able to get on with this lock with a modified sputnik approach. Pick the lock, turn it a wee little bit. then push in all the wires in the sputnik hard and keep pressure on them as you turn past the security device. Although I doubt this will be great for your wires.

[SFGOON]

Okay, then pick it with rockers, twice. You could also pick then decode the lock with foil and a comb pick. You could also rock it then pack the keyay with clay to prevent the secondary pins from slamming down. Lots of ways, many techniques. It's nowhere near infallible, you just need to adapt to to new circumstances.

[Chucklz]

According to what I got from a toool video, that all attempts to repick or pad the keyway have failed.

[n2oah]

A simple key impressioning will open this lock. I love it when engineers nail one aspect of making the "unpickable" lock, then they find out there is another method of opening that lock.
If you are following the "making an unpickable lock" thread, you will see I have put this trap pin design into a Mul-t-Lock. (look for the red and black drawings on pages 12-14)