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Store your keys in your iPhone? Security risk

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

Store your keys in your iPhone? Security risk

Postby Ward » 10 Aug 2013 18:33

Check it out;

https://www.keyme.net/app

I'm sure there's tons of potential security risks with keeping your keys 'in' your phone (or even on the server/'cloud').

What's interesting is that the app doesn't just store a picture of your key but rather the blank and bitting; I wonder if the app figures this out for you or sends it up to the cloud for processing.... An app that can take a picture of a key and figure out all that would be nice. I wonder if it does anything more complex than the usual Schlage/Kwikset stuff.

I also wonder if locksmiths would just cut any random key based on a customer walking in and asking them to cut 'what the phone says'. I bet someone can come up with a related app that allows you to change that screen to show any blank and bitting you want, which now allows you to get a locksmith to make you ANY arbitrary key...

Just some thoughts off the top of my head.
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Re: Store your keys in your iPhone? Security risk

Postby GWiens2001 » 10 Aug 2013 19:10

Good concerns about whether a lockie would copy a key, especially if it is restricted, just because the phone app says yes.

These are meant to be used with the "KeyMe Kiosks". I suspect it would have severe limitations on what blanks were available at the kiosk.

According to the link you provided, you can send off for keys, which will then be mailed to you. Yeah, I'd just love to have a key to my house sitting in the mailbox. :? Though I suspect that the variety of blanks available by mail order would be much higher than at the kiosk.

Maybe I will download the app, and take a few random keys from my collection (instead of from my house!!!), and see how it works. If it seems to work, will see if I can crash the app by scanning a Fichet 750 key for the lock that arrived today. :twisted:

Will get back to this post with updates as I play around with it. Have Monday off, so maybe will have to stop by a few locksmiths and see if they will cut a key from the app.

Starting with American lock, to a mildly restricted Schlage, then a GEGE or EVVA. I want to see what kind of blank it says to use. :lol:

Gordon
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Re: Store your keys in your iPhone? Security risk

Postby GWiens2001 » 10 Aug 2013 20:38

Ok, it has been almost an hour and a half. Sorry for keeping you waiting so long. :wink:

First, you have to set up an account with KeyMe. This entails providing an email address that they can send an email to you that you need to click using your portable device (phone, tablet, iPad, etcetera). I don't know if it will run on a laptop.

You are also required to submit a valid credit card number, expiration date, and security number from the back of the card (even before the confirmation email is sent).

Ok, account set up. So what next? Scan a key, of course! Went out and grabbed a key for an American padlock. Factory key, AM3. It even has the key bitting stamped right on the bow, so confirmation of their accuracy of determining the blank and bitting would be so easy, right? Not quite. :|

First, the key needs to be placed flat on a sheet of white paper. Then hold the phone camera about 4 inches from the key. It will give you hints. There is a red rectangle, not even sides. There is even a helpful arrow telling you which way to tip the camera. OH, cool, now it is a square rectangle.

The screen turns yellow, and tells you to hold the camera steady. Rock steady. Oops, gotta tip it back level. Ok, hold steady. Ah, tip it back again. Good, it is yellow again. Hold it steady. Darn it, even rocks arn't as steady as they want the camera held. Ok, put it on a couple of coffee cups to hold it steady. Oh, now it does not like that there is not just a key on a white surface. And the two cups, though identical in manufacture, model, color, and is level when a level is placed onto the two cups, are not able to hold the camera flat enough, so back to red non-equal-sided. Shim here to level it out. Now it wants the green rectangle to match the outer red triangle, because the key is now too far away.

After 5 minutes, I could hear the software click the camera, taking the shot. Whew! At least that part is over.

No, it is not over. Because now, of course, you need to flip over the key and take a picture of the other side. Re-read the past few paragraphs about 8 times. It saves me typing it again.

GOAL!!! :D We now have two pictures, one of each side of the key. Now type in the name for your key, and click "+ADD TO RING"

Now it says "We are analyzing your key. This usually takes 1-2 minutes. Ok, no problem. I can wait. Hey, about 15 seconds, it says "Under Review. Your key has some unusual features. An image expert is personally reviewing your key to ensure accurate analysis. :roll: an American AM3 with a bitting of 44274 has unusual features??? Oh, well. How long can it take to analyze that key?

Half an hour later, still no analysis.

Ok, maybe something a little easier. Schlage SC1. Again, a factory key with the cuts stamped right on the bow. 43438, to be precise. Again, this is not a lock in use, so not worried about posting the bitting. It only took about two minutes to scan both sides of this key! Keep this up, and might be able to do it in under a minute!

Named the key, clicked add to ring, and heeerrre we go! Immediately, it tells me that "we are analyzing your key..." about 10 seconds later, the message changes! Now it says "Under Review. Your key has some unusual features. An image expert... Yadda Yadda Yadda. You know the routine.

Still no identified key, aside from what I typed. Neither key, even one of the most common keys in the United States, has been identified, nor has the bitting been identified, even though their image expert should be able to see the bitting stamped right on the key bow of BOTH KEYS.

Maybe the image expert personally reviewing my key is trying to teach their seeing-eye-dog to identify keys.

For the sake of those who put up the money for this software, I hope the kiosks work better. Have decided not to waste my time scanning in a GEGE or BiLock. I was even hoping I could scan in the key from my LOB TUR1 (12 pin lock with a loooong key), and have then cut me a spare. :twisted: I'll give them a couple of days to identify the keys. After all, maybe these people are needing help with the unusual features found on factory blanks of common locks.

My overall review of this product...

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Five mad frowns.

Gordon
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Re: Store your keys in your iPhone? Security risk

Postby fgarci03 » 10 Aug 2013 23:23

Nice review Gordon!

Have you tried KW1?
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
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Re: Store your keys in your iPhone? Security risk

Postby MBI » 11 Aug 2013 0:35

Thanks Gordon. Outstanding review, you got a few chuckles out of me there.
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Re: Store your keys in your iPhone? Security risk

Postby ARF-GEF » 11 Aug 2013 3:38

Thanks Gordon. Outstanding review, you got a few chuckles out of me there.

+1 on that, plus congrats on the Fichet! :D
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Re: Store your keys in your iPhone? Security risk

Postby GWiens2001 » 11 Aug 2013 17:12

Further update, and some pictures, on the KeyMe app.

Here is the first page of the app:

Image

Requirements for setting up an account (required).

Image

Yes, it can use the camera to scan in your credit card, though you have to manually enter in the expiration date and security number.

Image

Ok, account is set up. After you log in, you see this:

Image

Easy to read instructions. Easy to follow? In theory, yes. In reality, read my above post.

Image

Scanning the key.

Image

Red = "You have not got this right yet, moron. " Expect to see this a lot. :evil:

Image

Hey, distance and angle are correct. Now hold it perfectly steady until your arms are sore.

Image

Expect to see the above two pictures about 40 times. Once you have scanned in one side...

Image

When you have both sides scanned...

Image

Sounds good, right? Nope.

Image

Next, I tried a standard Schlage, just to see the app work. Same thing.

Over a day later, there is finally a response! For the American Padlock key...

Image

They have over 70% of keys, yet don't have this one???

Well, the Schlage key...

Image

Well, now. Here is something. Let's see what is says...

Image

What the heck? $10 to see the info, and it does not include cutting a key? Well, how about the nearest kiosk? Where is that located?

Image

Wait a second!!! Hang on a moment. You are telling me that the nearest kiosk to Tucson, Arizona, United States is in New York City??? You are kidding, right? For those not as familiar with the size and geography of the United States of America, New York is at the red dot. Arizona is at the bottom left kf the United States. How far is that? Could I drive there in an hour and get a key?

Image

Nope. Could hardly drive to the airport in an hour, let alone fly over 2100 miles (over 3400 kilometers).

This seems a pretty expensive alternative.

My rating remains...

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Gordon
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Re: Store your keys in your iPhone? Security risk

Postby fgarci03 » 11 Aug 2013 19:24

I give this app a :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: score.
Remember, this is the perfect app to legally rip off money from random Jacks! :lol:


Thanks for the review Gordon! :mrgreen:
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise.
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Re: Store your keys in your iPhone? Security risk

Postby slimjim123 » 28 Aug 2013 15:14

Awesome review. I do have a lot of concerns with being able to scan any key in seconds and having the option of having a digital copy of it to send to kiosks. A lot of risk for potential abuse. There really should be more security features..
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Re: Store your keys in your iPhone? Security risk

Postby GWiens2001 » 28 Aug 2013 17:21

slimjim123 wrote:Awesome review. I do have a lot of concerns with being able to scan any key in seconds and having the option of having a digital copy of it to send to kiosks. A lot of risk for potential abuse. There really should be more security features..


Well, no worries about scanning in a key in seconds, slimjim. 5-10 minutes? Sure, as long as you have had no caffeine in the last six months. :wink:

Maybe the kiosks are quicker. Also quite concerned about the security of the key data. You are correct, there should be more security features for the customers willing to scan in their keys. There is no way I would scan a key I actually use.

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Re: Store your keys in your iPhone? Security risk

Postby ARF-GEF » 5 Sep 2013 10:31

Well, you could fly to New York with your private jet. 8) Then it's what, only like 5 hours away or so? Totally worth it.
Anyway it's not a bad good idea, but the implementation leaves place for wishes..
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Re: Store your keys in your iPhone? Security risk

Postby GWiens2001 » 5 Sep 2013 12:13

Yes, but the Boeing 727 is in the shop for the 5,000 hour maintenance, and the Leerjet 23 has a glitch with the nose gear. That leaves the Sikorsky helicopter. Then I'd have to stop at least two or three times at airports on the way to refuel. What a hassle! :roll:

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Re: Store your keys in your iPhone? Security risk

Postby MrTornado » 11 Sep 2013 15:27

I imagine it wouldn't be too challenging for law enforcement to get a warrent to get your keyfiles from "the cloud". That seems somewhat dodgy to me personally civil liberties etc.

The bigger concern is if someone hacks into the servers they'll have a name from the credit/debit card, a code to cut a key to and an approximate GPS location of where you live.

Edit: In fact they'll have you postal address most probably. That's going to be your house for 99% of people.

That's a pretty big deal.
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