Cyrogenicaly frozen picks and tension wrenches

[Romstar]

I haven't written the "article" on tempering yet.

The problem with hardening and tempering is that is is very subjective depending on the material, the desired characteristics, the size and weight of the piece(s), just a variety of factors.

I have hardened and tempered a large number of items, ranging from lock picks to swords and used a variety of methods to do so, from forge hardening to electric furnaces.

There are some basic guide lines that can be followed, and I have talked about some of the proceedures in older postings if you are interested.

On of the funny things with hardening and tempering, especially when doing it by hand is repeatability. It can be difficult to acheive the same results each time.

Although, with lock picks I suppose it isn't the most critical thing in the mix. Just so long as the pick is not too brittle, or too soft.

Romstar

[lunchb0x]

BazookaMedic, you are wrong, carbon fiber is used for both reasons, because it is very light as you know, AND because it is stronger than steel. so saying it is not used for its strenght is stupid.
but their is no point arguing about it because picks will not be made from carbon fiber because of the costs and there is no market for it.
if you need a pick that is tempered though your probably not using it right

[BazookaMedic]

O.K If you research its overall use. it is MOSTLY used as a reinforcement for other synthetic materials.

If you can find some charts from any Engineering standard load data chart then i will belive you. Just go out and work with carbon fiber like i had the opportunity to, and you will realize it is not what people make it out to be. It is not a wonder material, It is actually very brittle unless it is manufactured perfectly. It only carries its strength in a similar fashion that Ply-wood does-- through layers. In the mean time, if I were you start a thread like i did with cyrogenic freezing of picks.

[Romstar]

if you need a pick that is tempered though your probably not using it right

Say WHAT?

Does anyone else want to go after this error? I mean I love debate as much as the next guy, but does it always have to be me?

Look, this is really simple.

Every comercially made pick is already tempered. Thats the nature of the steel that is used. Whether it is HPC, Rytan, SouthOrd, Ilco, or Peterson. I think the one exception to this may be LAB, but I haven't used those picks in a very long time, but I remember they were soft.

Comercially made picks are constructed of two main materials. Spring steel, and stainless steel. The spring steel HAS to be tempered by its very nature. The stainless is almost always a full hard spring stainless which is again tempered to give it the spring quality.

If you don't temper the steel, you get soft or brittle picks.

Bazooka was asking in relation to making his own picks from readily available materials. Hence the need to know some more about heat treating.

Dude, honestly, look. I am sure you are a nice guy and all, but so far you have sounded like you are talking out of your hat a few times. I don't know if you are trolling, if you honestly have a conviction on something, or if you are just trying to stir up a mess, but for heaven sake think for a few minutes.

I mean, that comment really shows a lack of understanding about materials. Bazooka is right about the carbon fibre as well. It ISN'T as good as some people make it out to be. It can be an amazing material, but it is prone to all sorts of defects and manufacturing errors. It is stronger and lighter than steel, but its ability to absorb torsional stress sucks, not to mention what happens to it on impact. That is what makes it so useful for automotive applications. It absorbs and distributes the damage in an accident. The consequence of course is that it is destroyed in the process. I am by no means an expert on the material, I have worked with it, but not extensively. Still, even I am aware that it is not recomended for some applications.

So far I would have to say that your contributions to the site have not been as constructive as they could be. We value each of our members, and their opinions, but some of the things you have said have left a bad feeling. Not just with myself, even though I was apparently your target in some of the cases.

We are open to everyone, and we help everyone who genuinely has an interest in picking and locksmithing. On the other hand, if you are looking for a fight, there are other forums more suited to that.

Take care, and have a good day.
Romstar

[lunchb0x]

yes your right, i read it back to my self and its not how i ment it, what I think is that you shouldent need any picks that are harder than spring steel, you should not be needing to force the pins that much.
so yes your right for having a go at me for that.
as for the carbon fiber thing it is MY opinion that I think they would work, but i can be wrong.
how is it that you have been my target for anything? im sorry if i appear to be attacking anyone but i am not, and if anyone has a problem with what i have to say please let me know.

[Romstar]

yes your right, i read it back to my self and its not how i ment it, what I think is that you shouldent need any picks that are harder than spring steel, you should not be needing to force the pins that much.
so yes your right for having a go at me for that.
as for the carbon fiber thing it is MY opinion that I think they would work, but i can be wrong.
how is it that you have been my target for anything? im sorry if i appear to be attacking anyone but i am not, and if anyone has a problem with what i have to say please let me know.

I would love to try carbon fibre for picks. I just don't know if it would break at that thickness.

I have recently been sent a box full of euro cylinders, and I can tell you that some of these little buggers are a right bugger. Keyways like you wouldn't believe, and some of them so thin that regular picks barely go in, and there is just no way you can move around in there with regular sized pick. Nasty stuff.

As for attacking anyone, sorry my bad. I've been working three days with little sleep trying to get things done before the holiday rush. I made a mistake, and wrongly accused you of something. My sincerest appoligies.

True enough about the picks. I mean, yeah both Peterson and myself use an insanely high tensile strength steel for our picks, but its really overkill.

I'm using a chrome-molly marine grade steel, and he uses some similar molly steel, and to be honest I just can't envision the application that would require them. Its mostly bragging rights, although both the Canadian and US navies specify the steel I am using for their harsh duty tools and equipment.

Again, sorry about my mistake, and taking a go at you. I think I will go put this car back together, and go to bed.

Have a good one,
Romstar