A couple of probably very stupid questions but . . .

[Megareader]

Hi, this is megareader. I write P.I. novels, and my sleuth is struggling with a couple of situations regarding doors and locks. Since I'm lucky to get into the house when I have a key, I was hoping someone out there could help me out.

First, is there such thing as a "loid," in the sense of an actual item that you can purchase or whatever? I mean, I understand that we're talking about a piece of plastic and that credit cards are often used. But are there more or less useful pieces of plastic? Do people ever carry something specifically for the purposes of opening a locked door. As opposed to just, say, pulling out the VISA card and wrecking it? If so, what would this specialized loid thingy be, and what exactly would it look like?

I got all excited when I started reading about passport portfolios in another thread, but then I realized the guy was kidding around. Anyway, if anyone can answer this, it would be a big help.

My second question has to do with getting past a padlocked chainlink fence with razor wire on the top. Is it possible to cut chainlink fences with some kind of bolt cutter? Can you cut padlocks with bolt cutters? If my sleuth cuts the fence itself, for the purposes of, say, entering a lot from the back rather than from the gate, would she be able to pull the fence apart and get in quickly? She's an average-sized woman, not a Navy SEAL. I suppose she could just climb the fence with a pair of heavy gloves and cut the razor wire, but I was trying to work the bolt cutters (or whatever they would be) into the novel at this point.

Let me know if you can help with this. I have technical questions like this fairly often. Well, technical to me, probably just sort of out-of-it to others . . . so I'm hoping I can learn from this site.

[Chrispy]

'She' can cut the chain-link fence with handheld bolt cutters (the really small ones). Easier than going over the razor-wire.

[keysman]

>>First, is there such thing as a "loid," in the sense of an actual item that you can
purchase or whatever<<

Defiantly is such an item. I don’t know that you can purchase a premade “loid”, the
materials to make one are commonly available at any 7-11
Yes it can be used to open some doors, BUT in this case with razor wire all around , it
would be unlikely that the doors/entrances would be so poorly constructed that “loiding”
would be possible.

>>Do people ever carry something specifically for the purposes of opening a locked door.
As opposed to just, say, pulling out the VISA card and wrecking it? If so, what would this
specialized loid thingy be, and what exactly would it look like? <<

Yes keys, Visa /MC work well when you call the locksmith.

>>getting past a padlocked chainlink fence with razor wire on the top. Is it possible to cut
chainlink fences with some kind of bolt cutter? Can you cut padlocks with bolt cutters? If
my sleuth cuts the fence itself, for the purposes of, say, entering a lot from the back rather
than from the gate, would she be able to pull the fence apart and get in quickly?<<

Yes just about any kind of bolt cutter would work, they make Power Bolt Cutters that are
really cool and actually would fit in a coat pocket.
Yes you can cut many padlocks with bolt cutters. The better padlocks are shrouded to
prevent bolt cutters from getting a grip.
Yes ,your sleuth could get in as soon as the fence was cut.
Since your sleuth doesn’t seem to mind that the “owners “ know of the entry, why not
use something really cool like magnesium powder to burn precision holes in the concrete
walls or just to melt the lock off the door?

[helix]

Good to see that you are doing your homework on this and not just saying,
"Yeah she cut the high security padlock with some pliers and said, 'SSSmokin'!!"
haha, good work

[Megareader]

Thanks for all the info on loids and bolt cutters as well as the creative ideas. This is a great site. The power bolt cutters that fit in your pocket sound intriguing.

Still not sure I understand the loid thing though. Trying not to be dense here, but details are important in fiction and I've no personal experience with locks aside from, right, using and losing my own keys . . . except for one time when I accidentally pushed the wrong button on the inside of my boyfriend's door, discovering a lock he'd never even used before and locking us out of his apartment. Needless to say, that was a short-lived relationship.

But back to the loid question. Is it basically more of a verb than a noun? Like you don't carry a loid, you just loid a door with whatever credit card you happen to be carrying? (To clarify, this loid my sleuth is using was for the first situation, a door with a flimsy lock, not the second situation, with the razor wire, padlocked gate and chain link fence.) And if a loid can be created from materials at 7-11, this would actually be helpful, as she spends some time lurking in a convenience store . . . but, um, what exactly would those materials be? A plastic . . . what? Right now I have her getting a loid from a colleague, practicing with it around her own house, and then using it in a later scene. But I don't want to create this object in the novel if it's totally lame.

Come on, it's not nice to tease!

[sivlogkart]

I was watch a London fireman with some powered bolt cuttings move a large number of parked motorcycles with huge locks and chains, and his cuttings chopped through them as if they were plastic. Sadly one of the chains was mine, and I got there a few seconds too late to save it.

KJ

[SFGOON]

Back to the razor wire question. I prefer to use a heavy piece of canvas or leather going over those. Knocking holes in a fence lets people know you've done it when they find the hole. Also, your character should be very carefull not to rattle the fence too much, as this is actually once of the secuity features of such a barricade, they're noisy. Make sure to climb the fence near a post, and if you can, use a small stepladder.

[Chrispy]

But that was the point (wasn't it?), that the heroine doesn't care whether she leaves evidence of her presence.

[Chucklz]

Loid is just a shortening of celluloid. What you do with one is to slip a latch. You can use any kind of thin durable plastic, say from a milk jug even. Of course you can buy fancier things to slip latches
Go here http://www.multipick-service.com/en/start_en.htm
the click on "Tools for opening closed but unlocked doors" The sense here is that the door is "locked" IE, you cannot open it without a key, but it is not deadlocked. The picture of the latch will show you exactly what kind of lock this is meant to be used on. If your novel is based in the US, this kind of lock is likely to be found in apartment buildings and older houses. If your heroine has to first get through a chain link fence and razor wire, then bypass a door lock, slipping the latch seems a bit too easy.

[keysman]

Of course you could have your heroine do some pretty slick stuff depending on how much skill or connections to skilled help she has.

Have you considered the option of entering with a key?
Actually quicker/ easier and leaves no sign of entry.
How would she get a key you ask?

How about a photo of the key being used ,taken with a super telephoto camera. Any skilled locksmith could make a key from a photo.

Of course there is always the valet at the local night club who has the keys for a short while and loans them to your agent to inspect.

[keysman]

Picture of "power bolt cutters"

http://www.cemanco.com/products/hc.html

[Megareader]

Thanks a lot! ChuckIZ, that website with the pictures of the "Door Latch Slider" etc was exactly what I needed! I was looking at the other tools on that same page and wondering how much skill it takes to use the lever picks, etc. Also wondering if it's actually legal to wander around with any of this stuff. Not that my character worries too much about this point.

The discussion of various options is also interesting. In the novel I'm finishing up right now, the chain link fence scene is a separate event, separate chapter and building, from the use of a loid to get into a locked room, so the two methods don't have to work together. It was interesting to hear about various ways to get through the fence with the razor wire though. I can see using the step ladder/leather cover technique at some point in the future, now that I have that image in mind.

Oh, one other question about the loid. Can you ever use it to relock the same type of non-deadbolt door?

I'm intrigued by the power bolt cutters idea, but it was difficult to tell from the website if there really is such a thing as a bolt cutter that fits in one's pocket, is heavy enough to cut a chainlink fence, and runs on batteries. (She's not going to able to plug it in, needless to say.) So probably the handheld non-power type that Chrispy suggested would make more sense, as long as my 120-pound female PI could actually cut a fence with it.

Thanks again for the help, everbody!

[Chrispy]

Also wondering if it's actually legal to wander around with any of this stuff. Not that my character worries too much about this point.

With the course of action your character is undertaking, I think intent will play a big part. So, no, it would not be legal for your character to carry them.

So probably the handheld non-power type that Chrispy suggested would make more sense, as long as my 120-pound female PI could actually cut a fence with it.

She could.

[wtf|pickproof?]

You wouldn't need boltcutters to cut a fence. Just use regular pliers. The boltcutters are made for chains and padlocks.

You don't relock those "non deadbolt" locks. You just close the door

[chopitup]

Oh, one other question about the loid. Can you ever use it to relock the same type of non-deadbolt door?

Providing you were just slipping the latch, most likely the door would be locked again when you closed it on your way out. The only thing your sleuth would have to worry about is burgler alarms and fingerprints.

As for the bolt cutters, I've cut a LOT of wire (Another hobby of mine is chainmail) and there are medium gauge wire cutters that are designed like bolt cutters (they have the leverage) while being about the size of a larger pair of pliers. (http://www.irly.ca/irly/corp/0645.HTM)