Various Bump keys for the same lock.

by **qwerty125** » 27 Sep 2005 15:25

Just recently got in to bumping but ran into some trouble.
I'd love to post the picture of the keys but I cant seem to find my camera. So hopefully someone knows what im talking about.

I had a simple 5 pin lock (I think it has 'Security' as the label.. not sure if thats the brand.) I had the 2 copies of the original key so I filed one down and had no problems bumping. I didn't need to take anything off the shoulder or from the front of the key. However, I had 3 other keys that fit the keyway so I filed those down to about the same height. I tried using those to bump. I was only sucessful twice in using 2 out of the 3 keys to bump. The third one wouldn't bump at all. I compared all 4 keys and they were all cut the same height but the distances between each spike was different. So my conclusion is...
You can't just use 'ANY' key that fits the keyway... <-- Is that true?

Also, is it really neccessary to file the shoulder down as well as the front?

I'll try to post pictures.

by **digital_blue** » 27 Sep 2005 15:32

It sounds more to me like your filing alignment wasn't all that precise. If the key is correct for the keyway, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work if it's indeed filed properly.

DISCLAIMER: I only half-way know what I'm on about here.

db

by **Chucklz** » 27 Sep 2005 16:07

Any bump key that fits into the keyway appropriately AND has the correct depth and spacing will open the lock. Depth and spacing, well thats up to you to figure out. Now, the key must fit appropriately into the lock. Just because you can cram a kwikset bump key into a Schlage P keyway doesnt mean it will work (or that you can remove it easily). However, if you do have a a multi-section lock. For example my Schlage P keyway cylinder bumps open with C, E, CE, F,G,FG keys, the "sub-master" section keys H,J,K, and of course the all powerful L keyway bump key.

by **skold** » 27 Sep 2005 16:09

As said if the key does fit the lock, there is no reason why it could not make a bump key, whether it is successful or not is another thing.

by **qwerty125** » 27 Sep 2005 16:17

Well.. as Chucklz said maybe I;m using a key that fits but isn't meant to open the lock. The reason why I say that is after reading his thread I've noticed that two of the key's ive used have really wide spacing between some of the spikes. So when I paired up the keys with the original, some of the spikes were really off centered. So assumed those weren't going to work anyway.. However the ones that were similar did work, I just had a low success rate. Filing down the original key to me was kinda cheating but I wanted to really get the basics down on bumping. Thats the only key that I used that has around 80% success rate. (4 out of 5 times I get it to open) I really need to get a good bumping tool though.. I've been using my screwdriver and getting a good snap is difficult.. that and I keep hitting my thumb lol..and its one of those throbbing pains that don't go away for like 5 minutes.

by **keysman** » 29 Sep 2005 9:51

Bump Keys work on the same principle as a pick gun, the snap separates the bottom and
top pins creating a sheer line, allowing the plug to turn.

I am sure you have see the Que. ball / 8 ball analogy where the Que ball stops and the 8
ball starts moving. The same principle applies to bump keys and pick guns.

When using a bump key, the moving ramp is what gets the pins moving, if your ramps
are not spaced properly for the specific brand of lock you are working on then you will
have the same effect of as â€œscratchingâ€ in the game of pool.

There are sights on the Internet that list spaces and depth for most lock manufactures.
I just canâ€™t find them in a quick yahoo search , maybe somebody can post a link.

Also ,most code programs list S&D .You could always ask and see if somebody can help
you.

by **qwerty125** » 29 Sep 2005 10:06

hehe thanks for you generosity keysman, but I don't want to be a bother with small things like this. But at least now i know you cant just create a bump key from just any key. That was my assumption.
So I'm assuming for example, that a schlage C key thats created from a machine will always bump a schlage c keyway door. Really interesting stuff.. don't know why but this stuff gets me excited lol.

by **qwerty125** » 6 Oct 2005 16:15

wow.. i wish there was an edit button. Anyways..
Got a quick question. How much should be taken off the shoulder in a bump key. The bump keys i've made... (the one successful bump key that Ive made) did not need to have its shoulder filed down.. (i had a success rate of 80%).. If i file down too much then every time i push the key in all the way.. it pops back out a bit.. I try not to hold the key all the time because I end up missing with my bumping tool and I smash my fingers.

by **keysman** » 8 Oct 2005 5:51

qwerty125 wrote:How much should be taken off the shoulder in a bump key.

MMMM that is kind of like asking what color car should I drive

I have heard from: none to 1/2 the with of a cut (peak to peak)

personally I never cut the shoulder, but your mileage may vary.

I try not to hold the key all the time because I end up missing with my bumping tool and I smash my fingers.

You may want to locate a wire or a big nail to fit snugly through the ring hole and use that for turning .. be careful you don't need much and you get a lot of leverage with a wire or nail

Saves a lot of finger smashing, and allows for longer, more frequent practice sessions

by **rio2005** » 2 Nov 2005 11:14

AS A COMPLETE BEGINNER, COMPLETE AS IN HAVE NOT GOT ANY PICKS OR ANY OTHER TOOLS BESIDS MY BUILDING AND DIY KIT, THIS METHOD OF "BUMPING" IS ALARMINGLY INTERESTING. WOULD IT BE FAIR TO SAY THAT WHILST I WAIT FOR MY SPECIFIC TOOLS I GET SOME PRACTICE WITH BUMPING?. ALTHOUGH I AM READING WITH GREAT INTEREST AND AM VERY IMPRESSED WITH THE KNOWLEDGE YOU GUYS HAVE AQUIRED I DONT QUIET UNDERSTAND THE TECNIQUE USED FOR BUMPING, I MEAN DO YOU PUT THE KEY ALL THE WAY IN TO THE CHAMBER THEN TAP TAP TAP, THEN TRY TO TURN? OR DO YOU TRY TURNING AS YOU ARE TAPPING?. HONEST IM NOT THICK ITS ONLY MY SECOND DAY AND I WOULD LOVE TO LEARN THIS TECHNICAL ARTFORM. ALSO WHEN PICKING LETS SAY A FIVE PIN LOCK IS IT JUST ONE PICK THAT IS USED?. ANY HELP WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED AS AM GOING TO AQUIRE SOME DODGY OLD LOCKS THIS WEEKEND!. :wink:

by **Pickermeapie** » 2 Nov 2005 11:34

rio2005 wrote:AS A COMPLETE BEGINNER, COMPLETE AS IN HAVE NOT GOT ANY PICKS OR ANY OTHER TOOLS BESIDS MY BUILDING AND DIY KIT, THIS METHOD OF "BUMPING" IS ALARMINGLY INTERESTING. WOULD IT BE FAIR TO SAY THAT WHILST I WAIT FOR MY SPECIFIC TOOLS I GET SOME PRACTICE WITH BUMPING?. ALTHOUGH I AM READING WITH GREAT INTEREST AND AM VERY IMPRESSED WITH THE KNOWLEDGE YOU GUYS HAVE AQUIRED I DONT QUIET UNDERSTAND THE TECNIQUE USED FOR BUMPING, I MEAN DO YOU PUT THE KEY ALL THE WAY IN TO THE CHAMBER THEN TAP TAP TAP, THEN TRY TO TURN? OR DO YOU TRY TURNING AS YOU ARE TAPPING?. HONEST IM NOT THICK ITS ONLY MY SECOND DAY AND I WOULD LOVE TO LEARN THIS TECHNICAL ARTFORM. ALSO WHEN PICKING LETS SAY A FIVE PIN LOCK IS IT JUST ONE PICK THAT IS USED?. ANY HELP WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED AS AM GOING TO AQUIRE SOME DODGY OLD LOCKS THIS WEEKEND!.

For starters: PLEASE TURN YOUR CAPS LOCK OFF. IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO READ YOUR POSTS. IT ALSO INSINUATES YOU YELLING.

OK now thats out of the way...

Do some searching. You will find a WEALTH of information. Go to www.toool.nl They have a video on bumping that tells you how it works and how it is done. But in a nutshell there are two ways to preform this. Pull the key out one click and tap it in. Right after you tap it, I mean nanoseconds after you turn the key. If you did it right then the cylinder will turn, if not... well it wont turn. The scond way I like is to keep a light pressure on the key whilst tapping on it. the cylinder should turn after 3-5 taps. if it dosen't, release pressure and try again.

Again do a search. Google and LP101. You get a lot of information.

by **stick** » 2 Nov 2005 11:36

rio2005 wrote:HONEST IM NOT THICK

All indications point otherwise.

But seriously, bumping isn't that important, but it's nice to know everything. I made a good bump key for the standard Schlage keyway, learned how to bump, and that's been it for me. Aside from knowing how to do it, there's not much in bumping that I find interesting.

As for picking locks, don't try to use more than one pick. For a great example of what happens when you don't, search for a few threads by TootieBell. :lol:

by **rio2005** » 2 Nov 2005 11:59

Thanks people, caps lock now off and am now barely a whisper.

by **illusion** » 2 Nov 2005 12:03

search for a few threads by TootieBell

that was classic... laughing about it still

by **Dark Angel** » 2 Nov 2005 14:00

Has anyone created a bump key that has been succsesfull in opening several diffrent locks,or is it just a matter of tailoring the key to just one lock.

Various Bump keys for the same lock.

Various Bump keys for the same lock.

Bump Keys

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