Right Raking Technique? No answers?

[Greyflex]

Hi, I am a noob. I am placing this post because I clicked on Luke's post, hoping to find some insight onto raking. Instead I learned how to use a diamond pick. Oh well.

Raking just doesn't make any sense at all, to me. Randomly mashing pins up and down in a frenzied levering motion makes infinitely more sense to me than does raking.

I have read several posts that mention raking, but usually they refer to it in passing. I have only been told once about the theory, through a friend of a friend. According to this guy, who was so good at it, he could use a biology probe (i.e. a long needle on a wooden handle) and a screwdriver to open any lock on his college campus, the process goes as follows:

Insert pick to the back of the lock, apply light torque, then rip the pick out as fast as you can in such a manner that it hits the key pins on the way out. The driver pins will momentarily bounce above the shear line, and the torque will cause them to catch.

What am I missing? Wouldn't the torque stop the sticky pin from bouncing? And isn't this the only pin that would catch? Or do ALL the pins "hang" above the shear line long enough so that you can apply torque just after u raked, to catch them all at the same time? I find this hard to picture. I would think that the pick would have to physically move the pins up to the shear line. In this case, is the pick actually moving up and down on the way out, in the appoximate shape of a key... all in one quick motion? When someone successfully rakes a lock in one scrub, does that mean that the sticky pins go from back to front? or can u scrub a lock in one swipe, no matter which order they stick?

Lots of info on this forum.. Unfortunately I don't see a search engine, yet. In case I don't find what I need, perhaps someone will take pity on me and shed some light on my ignorance.

Oh. I can single-pin pick every lock I have gotten my hands onto, so far. I do not have a rake pick, but have been trying to use my hacksaw blade-hooks/probes.

[Shrub]

There is a search button at the top of the screen, inbetween rules and groups, thats your ignorance sorted now to the raking problem,

Youve been told right and your understanding is ok, yes all the pins can go above the shear line at the same time, its simular to using a manual or electric gun, i sort of pick pin by pin as well at the same time so some set easier than others, its hard to explain but i basically rake and then finish of with light stroking to set any unset pins, it sounds a lot but its all done in seconds most of the time,

You can rake a lock in one swipe and no the pins dont set in order, its the tool you use, you can still be moving all the pins at once even in a sinlgle withdrawl, try it and you will understand a lot more, you can scrub locks which is in and out and its easier and more effective than raking but does damage the lock more,

Raking and scrubbing do damage the lock, a severly practiced lock may not even work with the correct key if tried, its generally considered (by me) if on a job and you do this proceedure once and gain entry, if practiceing on the same lock you will make it baaaaadddd

[Greyflex]

ok. Thx for the reply. I found the search button. Yea! Still no luck on raking, but I am currently making a bogota rake. Maybe this will help me.

As an aside. Thx for the clarification between raking and scrubbing. Aslo, would a bogota rake really be used for raking? The motion described in its use seems more akin to jiggling, or really really short scrubbing.

Hope we can get a good discussion going on raking, and how people do it. Seems like 95% of lock-pickers use raking, and most even think it is easier than single-pin picking. But seems like no one really knows how to teach it, lol.

[Shrub]

I can and have teach/taught it in mins to toatal newbies but over text its a little harder,

The Bogota rake is what it says but the guy to ask is raimoundo.

Jiggleing is basically an up and down motion with very slight in and out,

95% of lock-pickers use raking

Far from it youl find most lockies will use an electric gun or rake/scrub because of speed and less skill required, pure pickers wont touch it as there is no fun in it.

[illusion]

Far from it youl find most lockies will use an electric gun or rake/scrub because of speed and less skill required, pure pickers wont touch it as there is no fun in it.

not true... when i get fed up trying to pick a lock pin-by-pin i get out my bogota style rake and show the lock how useless it is to defy me

varying tension as you do it will help you the most...

my first tri-circle is now lying dead in my room... my first lock which I practiced raking on, and after about 400 consecutive sessions of heavy raking it won't even open with the key... I admit I got a bit... angry at first, but avoid doing it too regularly, and you should be okay... if you can pin-by-pin do that instead, u'll find it fast when you can do it well

******************my 100th post*******************************

wow... do I get sent a free set of picks as promised...
o... so I don't get anything?
o well...

[Shrub]

Far from it youl find most lockies will use an electric gun or rake/scrub because of speed and less skill required, pure pickers wont touch it as there is no fun in it.

trick answer by me, a PURE PICKER was the operative words,

I do know what you mean though, everybody (well most) do try it now and again but as an everyday lock opener hobby pickers dont tend to do it much,

Varying the tension or bouncing the tension is a very good tip, one which i use myself on every pick i do

[Greyflex]

Well, I finished my bogota rake this afternoon, since I had the day off. Still no luck on simple locks.. grrr. I got one pin to stick, at most, without over-setting other pins.

Well, I am just gonna add the bogota to the bottom of my case, since there is just room enough for it, and it looks neat. When I get another burst of inspiration, perhaps thru this forum, I'll pick it up, again.

Thx for the encouragement, fellow lp101er's. And btw, I am very good at single-pin picking, already! (So says I.) Just wanted to see what all the rake-fuss was about. The grass is always greener on the other side, isn't it?

Question: When u "ruin" a lock by heavy raking to the point the key doesn't work, can't u single-pin pick it, still?

[Shrub]

Ive never practiced that much on cylinder locks but yes the raking technique will rub/file/grind whatever you want to call it, material off the bottom of the pins, if its a masterkeyed lock you can sometimes get the thin pins/slips out and you can somtimes damage the springs if over zealus but yes single pin picking should still be available in most cases, you could rekey it if the original key needs to be used again.

[digital_blue]

Greyflex, I commend you. It's refreshing to see a "n00b" post that demonstrates:
1) Coherent use of language
2) Obvious evidence that you have already read and learned much about the operation of a pin tumbler lock.
3) An ability to think through a problem

Now then, to throw in my 2 cents on your question, I have personally not had much in the way of success with the method of raking that you describe (sometimes described as "ripping"). Also, I don't agree that scrubbing is necessarily as damaging to a lock as that agressive rip is. When I scrub (and I really prefer pin by pin picking most of the time) I use a very gentle brushing action back and forth. If the lock does not pop right away, I gradually apply upward pressure to lift the pins a bit higher, while continuing to scrub gently back and forth. Failing this, I will continue the scrubbing action while first tipping the rake forward, then backward so as to create a sort of see-saw action (all the while scrubbing back and forth gently).

If I've gotten that far and still have not picked the lock, I am inclinded to give up raking and just pull out a small hook pick and have my way with it.

Hope this helps! Happy picking!

db

[Greyflex]

Wow, thx Digital Blue. It's always nice to be complimented!

And thx, again, to Shrub. I have enjoyed reading about your Bosco screwdriver pickgun, btw.

Learning to rake will remain on my "To Do list.". No matter how many times I read that single-pin picking is superior for XYZ number of reasons, all of which I agree with, the allure remains. In single-pin picking, every movement is deliberate and carefully controlled by the left brain. Ten people single-pin picking the same lock can all describe the experience in the exact same way. Raking seems to be more of an art, both in the way it is performed and in the tools used. The variety of different shapes for rake picks that I have seen on this site are seemingly endless. And I wish I knew how to use just one of them!

So my reasons for pursuing the ART of raking include all of the above, plus the main one - I CAN'T DO IT! WAAAAA!

[digital_blue]

Well you're well on your way young man.

(The young is in reference to your "lp101" age, and the man... well, it just sounded better than "young person", so I'm gonna stick with "man" until corrected. )

db

[Chrispy]

Raking is a bit like sex, everyone has their own technique.

[Shrub]

Db's description is great and how i wanted to say it, thats exactally how i do it other than on a job it normally does get picked without going down the single pin route, im not great at single pin picking to be honest and tend to spend practice time on lever locks

[raimundo]

Hey grey dude, have you done a good job of sanding the roughness off the rake you are using, that can make a world of difference.

[Greyflex]

Hey, it's Raimundo, himself. *bows down* I'm not worthy!

Umm. I use 400 grit sandpaper to sand my picks. But I admit I have been a bit lazy about getting to every nook and cranny. Esp sice I didn't know when I would grind it again. My rake started out on the fat side, since I wasn't sure of the ideal dimensions for my locks. Then it got thinned out over 3 or 4 modifications (with repeated failure to pick), and I also made the peaks a bit more rounded out, because for w/e reason I thought this might help me. It is pretty thin, now, and can fit pretty easily into my "U-Haul" brass padlock, so I will definitely spend some extra time sanding it out, since you have suggested it. So my progess thus far is as follows: uhh, I can single pin pick with it pretty well! (though I usually need a thinner pick to set pit 5)


Q: Did you invent the bogota rake? Why is it called the "bogota" rake?

Maybe when I get my digital camera, which I think I will order tomorrow, I will post a pic of my picks. Besides getting feedback on my rake, maybe one of my other picks will become famous, lol. It will be awhile though. Even if I get my camera in a few days, it might take me weeks to learn how to post a pic, since I am kinda bad with computers.

Digital and Shrub: yeah, i'm a guy. Come to think of it, I would think our particular addiciton is much more prevalent in males. Wonder if any females reading this can prove me wrong? Send a reply! And a pic? lol.