Something you should know (bump-keys)

[Volkov]

I rescently got into locks and keys and all that, and i quickly was intriuged. Made some lockpick tools the old way. I used a hair pin as the lockpick tool, and as a tension wrench i used a small bit of deformed metal. It was difficult to use these tools, but with the knowledge of how locks worked, i quickly learned to pick them. I've only done a few (all the locks I have lying around) And yeh....i thought I'd try this bump key thing.

So I went to the local key copying shop...plainly walked in, and asked them to make me a key which was "99999" and they just made it and it costs me a few dollars. I didnt know how much to file of the shoulder, so i just gussed and after a while of it not working, I filed some more of the shoulder. Then I realised i had to shave some of the tip. I did this, and eventually I got a lock open with it. Quite a few times. But it took a while. Is there something I'm not doing right, or did i mess the key up? I can simple go get another if I want. Can someone tell me how much to shave off it and where? 1/2mm seem to small when i look at the pictues to compare.

So yeah...Just letting you know they cut a 99999 key for me without question. I found it funny ,considering all this talking about ways to aqquite them. I live in australia by the way and I think it's pretty dumb!

Please give me some advice on the bumping technique!

- Thanks, Volkov!

[Shrub]

Watch the video on the toool website, read the white paper from the same place, use the search on this site to find all the posts under bump keys,

It does still require some skill and im still perfecting it myself as we speak,

I have found recentally its better to remove the shoulder and use another material in its place, NKT gave me a good tip which is also on the toool video and thats to put your shopulderless key into your lock and then build up some glue from a hot glue gun, once set this will allow a slight springness which has all of a sudden made this princible work well for me,
also dont use a material for your tomahawk that will take out the impact too much,

All and more of your questions are answered on recent threads.

[zeke79]

Shrub,

I am glad to hear you are having some luck bumping .

[Shrub]

Thanks zeke its only with your help on here and NKT's on another site that ive got somwhere, cheers mate,

I have found that the more secure locks work better than the cheap yales i was trying, its time to go back to them i think,

[Volkov]

Yes, but I managed to put the key I made into a lock (the one on my door) and i hit it twice and got it the second hit. Then i tried on two other locks and couldnt get anything. I don't know what the problem is. Do you not put any tension on it, and hit it and then quickly turn? Or do you put tension by turning the key and keep hitting? I would of though it was the first one. Which is what I do. But I just am having heaps of diffuculty (like not getting the lock opening at all) with the other locks, but I got the one on my own door a few times I think now. I was using a screwdriver (the hand of it) How hard do you have to hit the key? Is it best if I got some erasers on a ruler or something better?

- Thanks again, Volkov!

[Drexon]

From what I gather (haven't tried it myself), you have to have the key in it's 'neutral' position first, it's when all the pins are at the exact middle of the jaggies, and there's a ~1-1/2 mm space to go to the bottom of the lock (leaving room for it to move inwards). Apply a feather touch torque (the twisting of the key), just enough so that you can feel the pins touching the bolt. Then bang the key, often Hard. Barry (TOOOL) said he accidently hit his finger once and it hurt like hell, so I'm guessing you'll have to hit it relatively hard, and remember not to use a heavy material, like a hammer, but instead the backside of a hammer. If it didn't work the first time you'll have to reset the key (pull it out) to its neutral position and try again. Barry is able to do this without loosing any eventual pins that might've slided in, he's just that skilled.

You really should watch the movies on TOOOL, they're golden.

[Chrispy]

Would probably be best to use something like a rubber mallet.

[Dimmy Locks]

Well, just tried cutting my 1st bump key ( actually used 3 blanks but hey ho). This was for the popular range of 5 pin-set rim cylinders made by ERA. (well popular in UK anyway).
I can pick these failry easily manually so figured worth a go.
The lock I grabbed happened to have 2 N0.9's at the rear, 2 no.5's in middle and a no.4 to the front.

I cut my 999 key, and knowing the last 2 pins were 9's and wouldnt prevent the plug from turning, I only pushed the key in the lock to reach the 3'rd pin. <smart eh? <g>).
Well, 3 or 4 taps later hey presto it spun.
Tried down to the 4th pin, (1st no.9) and no joy. cut a little deeper for the last two cuts ( about 9 1/2 depth), still no joy. Cut deeper still, and retried just on 1st 3 pins and no longer worked. grrrrrrrr.

Ok, plan B. removed all the pins and moved the 5's and 4 to the rear and left 1 and 2 pin placings empty. Cut another 999, trimmed shoulder and tip and a few taps and ping she went. swapped all pins around to all the various pin placings and she went most of the time... Cool. got a bump key.
tried it in a few other ERA locks, and nope no joy. All of these had no.9 pins. I just cant seem to get it right just yet so I can get no.9's and not lose it for the other sized pins in same position. try, try, try again I guess.......tomorrow lol.

But this may answer your query about how u managed to do your front door but not the other 2 locks.. perhaps they also had no.9's which your front door may not. just a thought.

[Chucklz]

It is possible to bump a bitting that contains a 9 pin with a 9 depth... but it never works as well for me as a 10 10 10 key (really closer to 9.5). Now, are you using the pull out one bitting then strike, or the modified shoulder/tip method?

[Dimmy Locks]

actually both. did i misunderstand the video? ooops.

I've taken a little off shoulder and tip, and i pull the blank out so its 1 pin off, feel the pins just touching the riser of the cuts and strike. works most times without no.9's and can get no.9's if I deepen the cuts but then I lose the other pins... am using HPC key cutting machine with a no.2 blade, and it's possible that it is taking too much of the crown away to catch all the pins with the deeper than no.9 depth. I noticed he used a file on the video, and a bloomin big file at that. and that 2nd key he cut was just ugly !!! but it worked <sigh>

[digital_blue]

Yeah, if you've shaved a bit off the shoulder and tip you should not need to pull back the one place. You should be able to put your key in the lock and notice that you can push it in about 1/16th of an inch and when you let go it pops back out. This would be the ideal situation, because in this configuation each strike that fails will allow the key to pull back automatically into position ready for the next strike. This allows for bursts of strikes which should increase the likelihood of a successful bump.

Cheers!

db

[Volkov]

How little do you take of the shoulder and the tip, i think that is my problem?

I got two more perfect 99999 keys made for me and both worked with very little success rates...like 1 in 50 hits or something, maybe worse...

Man, there's something im just not doing right...Grr...

- Volkov

[Drexon]

You're probably not taking off enough. And don't worry about taking off too much, there's virtually no such thing. You should keep it under 2mm though. If you fail you can always attach a glue shoulder like the TOOOL guy showed, wich is probably the next you should take if it doesn't work anyways.

[digital_blue]

I disagree that there's no such thing as taking off too much. If you take off too much the key will not kick back into position automatically. Seems to me about a 16th of an inch is the right amount, though someone more skilled at this technique than I might jump in here.

db

[vector40]

No, I concur. A couple of mil seems about right.