UK 'Police Vetting': What it is and How to Get it.

[Shrub]

The police do a standard form called the 'subject access' check.
It is any individuals right to ask for this form and be given the information under the data protecion act.

You can ask your local police office for the data protection department to send you one. What this does is after you have filled it in your name and details get checked against the Scotland Yard police computer if you have had any crinimal activity, this includes all convictions but may not include all charges.

If you want to do work on police property this check wil not be sufficent and the checks that are needed can only be instigated by the police.

If you want to fit locks or upgrade security at places that deal with children or the elderly/vunrable people you need checks that have been done by the Crinimal Records Bureau (CRB).

There are 2 main checks: a standard one and an advanced one, the advanced one is more for careers and not applicable to our line of work.
The basic check costs around £33 at present.

These checks as well as checking with the police also go in to the social services records and benefits records etc.

At present any individual can not request a check from the CRB but you can get an umbrella company to apply on your behalf and an additional charge may be required for this by the company doing it If you are wanting to check an empolyee you have to first register to do so and can not do one on yourself.

What are the advantages of getting an umbrella company to get you a CRB check i hear you asking?

Well, if everything is correct and done right in these places you should NOT be able to get called out to a local spastic home, old peoples home or childrens home and start fitting locks unless you have the required checks made. Now if you already have these checks and can show the customer the paperwork this means various things; the main ones being that the customer doesnt have to use the normal appointed persons to do the work, you can do the work straight away without them having to pay and wait for the checks to be made, and you can advertise the fact to get more work in.

In most cases however, the normal subject access form will be adequate for any other work but if you have a lot of old peoples homes especially private run ones local to you like i do, it could be a good earner to be the only and first person they ring in case of problems.

I am going to go for the CRB checks as well as having the subject access check because, as i say, local homes do have to be on the right side of the law when having work done, although i know these places do get stuff done by un-checked people this is against the rules.

If you were to send a leaflet around to these places saying you are local and already have the checks done who do you think they are going to ring first all for the sake of £40?

Ill let you know a bit more about the process once I've gone through it, but for any more info you can visit the website at www.disclosure.gov.uk

I have just got off the phone with the local police data protection department to bring you this info fresh, but if you disagree or have better info i welcome any advice on the subject. I can only go off what I've just been told, so no flames please. I've not got my mitts on

Please also note that other police forces may call the subject access forms by slightly differant names but all mean the same thing.

{edited by Varjeal: just cleaned up some spelling and punctuation.}

[capt.dunc]

the scottish equivalent to the crb used to be the scro, but all disclosures are now done through "disclosure scotland" again this is done through an organisation who pays a registration fee to disclosure scotland and a fee per check.
the disclosure is then for working for that company only. ie. i have a disclosure for the highland council, but it's not valid for work within glasgow council's area
it's also not valid for properities outwith the council, privite care homes, nurseries etc.
nor is always valid for organisations who are run as seperate businesses from the council but who are non the less council funded and employing council work practices
all of these outside organisations would be required to conduct a sperate disclosure on your behalf if you will be working in close proximity to vunrable people.
it shouldn't be nessessary to be disclosed to go and work within these areas, the organisation should be able to clear your work area of children etc. in order for you to go in and do the work, since if they are flooding they can't wait, to find a plumber, check his documents, send the paperwork off and wait for the disclosure back (sometimes 3-4 months) before he can fix the pipes.

[al25027]

When chosing an umbrella company to gain your disclosure does it matter what area (geographical and sector) that it is in. I'm slightly confused on this matter. ie Has the umbrella company you choose got to have relavence to your proffession and does it matter if that organisation is in a completely different area than you.

[toomush2drink]

To date ive never been asked for anything like this to work in nurseries or nursing homes etc. I think a lot of it comes down to common sense on the part of the person who calls you , making decisions for themselves so it suits their own circumstances. My partner is a nursery manager and i asked her about this and everywhere she has worked has employed whoever to get the job done, no checks are carried out.The thing is nowadays is that there are so many bits of legislation and guidelines etc that its way too confusing for everyone apart from the laywers. Ive done jobs in police stations as a subcontracter with out any checks too, now i think that is worrying considering the current terrorist climate. It seems to me that as long as the job gets done nobody seems to care who does it, this is another the reason the uk locksmith industry need to be licensed.

[Shrub]

An umbrella company doesnt have to be envolved with the industry and neither does it have to be local.

Yes you can quite legitimatley do work anywhere but if somthing goes wrong and you end up on the other end of a barrister i would be glad i have that bit of paper.

Its up to you, theres no real need but neither is there for the normal disclosure form, round my area im telling the nursuries to check out there terms of insurance and the rules and regs that their local (my local) council state and then they can make their own mind up.
To me it means the differance betwenn a hairy arsed builder knocking a 3 lever mortice in to an outside door or myself going along and fitting Bs mortice locks.

If i had any other locksmiths near me i would be advertising the fact that i was fully registed.

[toomush2drink]

My point is that due to so much legislation people are so confused they havent a clue what registered means. I see ads all the time here in london saying registered locksmith but what does it really mean ? You could be registered at the library and advertise this way.As no licensing exists yet it doesnt mean a thing to the public.Bring in full licensing with police checks etc and then it may mean something. As for the legal side of things my sister in law is a soliciter and my brother a barristers clerk for a major law firm so no worries there

[kwc]

I work mainly on intruder alarms and we are checked and vetted all the time, we are not allowed to be a member of any political groups etc, and on MOD sites we get checked by them as well as the police.

It amazes me that anyone get to work on locks without a security check.
I wish there was a proper body setup to check the locksmith industry so that there is a right way for people (like me) to learn and trade.

The alarm industry has many checks in place for people
The police have there own people to check our work and also there is a national body who checks all our work.

Kev

[Shrub]

Toomsh, im with ya, i wholey agree, its just a shame the heads of this country dont see it as a big problem, unfortunatley it will take a driller killer to totally mess up number 10 or somthing until they will listen.

I think as far as your happy your doing a good job and the customer isnt being ripped off and is left with a good well done job at the end of it your fine,
A local council arent going to complain and a barrester etc would have to prove you were a) incompetent and b) oporating maliciously etc and if your not doing then they cant do much really, as you say theres no licensing so they cant take that off you, theres no laws on going to a home owners house under there direction and working on thier security so all they have left is to ask you to refund the money paid for any particular job but only after theyve proved youve been negligent, look at pheonix/aron locksmiths for example, hes only been done the last time and all the other times they couldnt touch him and es one of the worst in the business.

Without turning this thread into another uk licencing thread a i say its down to any particular person what they want to do (unfortunatley) but for me im getting my bits of paper so they can go with my working at heights bits of paper and everything else i have,

Unfortunaley your right in most ways, the only thing thats going to actually stop you getting work in this country is if your not vat registed.

[pinky]

this is untrue now in the warrant sector, as here now we are all police vetted and work to tight guidelines.

[Magic]

(wtf? )

I have recently applied for police disclosure - £10 through Humberside constabulary, but upto 40 days wait.

On the subject of CRB checks, it is my understanding that:
a - you do not require one unless you are going to be left unsupervised with vulnerable individuals.
b- you would require a fresh CRB certificate for every premises in which you found yourself working where the above applied.

I think that very few of us are likely to find ourselves in that situation, though we may find ourselves dealing with 'jobsworths' who know better

[Shrub]

Well if im fitting say 10 locks to a hospital or somthing i dont want someone standing over me,

No you dont need a check for each place you go to, once you have one your set to go,

[Magic]

I wouldn't much fancy someone peering over my shoulder either
The point I was trying to make is that it may not be essential to obtain a CRB check.

On my second point, the following is lifted directly from the CRB website:

'If you are asked to apply for a Disclosure and you already have one for a previous role; ask if the organisation is willing to accept it. When making this decision the organisation will take into account the length of time that has elapsed since that Disclosure was issued; the level of Disclosure; the nature of the position for which the Disclosure was issued; and the nature of the position for which you are now applying. Ultimately, it will be the organisation’s decision whether to accept it or not.'

Plenty more to be found at:
http://www.crb.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=1871

[Shrub]

Ah, no its not essential by any means,

A normal police check is good enough for most people,

[pinky]

a police check is not essential at all for anyone to trade sadly.
but these days if you want to cover warrant work and some sub contract work, then you need a basic disclosure, you also need a basic disclosure to join MLA.

A full check is only required if taking sub contract work in many schools and hospitals, though for schools only a full ofsted check is acceptable if working unsupervised near children etc.

Having a basic disclosure is also a selling point, to give the customer piece of mind that the locksmith is at least vetted and basicly honest, though everything is open to abuse.

[mrdan]

I work mainly on intruder alarms and we are checked and vetted all the time, we are not allowed to be a member of any political groups etc, and on MOD sites we get checked by them as well as the police.

It amazes me that anyone get to work on locks without a security check.
I wish there was a proper body setup to check the locksmith industry so that there is a right way for people (like me) to learn and trade.

The alarm industry has many checks in place for people
The police have there own people to check our work and also there is a national body who checks all our work.

Kev

I have been an alarm tech for about 9 years in 5 states and have found that the larger companies put you through a bacground check and California does a FBI level check. (livescan fingerprints and that kind of stuff) Mainly for liability purposes. California also places your info on the CA dept of Consumer affairs site so consumers can look you up and see if you have had any complaints. (once you do, it's pretty much all over for your career)

Probably the wrong profession for someone with less than honorable intentions.