Just recieved a new JP-A Set / Exotic alloys...

[v12v12]

Hey all! Just got my 1ST official Lock picking set, the Just Peterson Assortment and I must say... they are VEEEEEERY comfortable to use! I don't notice too much diff between the rubber and the plastic (cept in the cold whether), but the rubber is a nice touch. Very manuverable, thin and Flexible! I like this alloy they used. It's flexible, yet has a kind of memory-effect like titanium. (okay not quite, but nice) Has anyone ever seen or made an exotic alloy set of picks? Like say from titanium or Titanium Nitride coatings?

[mike-z]

Congrats on the new set and i dought that they would make picks from titanium maby coating

[wraith]

Congrats on the new set and i dought that they would make picks from titanium maby coating

Why not? Ti would be an excellent choice for tools, and especially for tension tools. Expensive, but an excellent application!

Trey

[mckutzy]

TiNi is a very hard coating on various tool steels meant for high wear aplications like a drill bit.

[wraith]

TiNi is a very hard coating on various tool steels meant for high wear aplications like a drill bit.

Yuppers. I have a few drill bit sets with the coating, and a couple of knives as well. My motorcycle fork legs have been coated as well. TiNi is some neat stuff.

I stand by my comment that titanium would make an excellent material for picking tools and especially tension wrenches!

Trey

[v12v12]

TiNi is a very hard coating on various tool steels meant for high wear aplications like a drill bit.

Yuppers. I have a few drill bit sets with the coating, and a couple of knives as well. My motorcycle fork legs have been coated as well. TiNi is some neat stuff.

I stand by my comment that titanium would make an excellent material for picking tools and especially tension wrenches!

Trey

Well, yes using Titanium would be a VERY explensive stretch for picks, but it's THE perfect material for basic infinite wear resistance. Stronger than steel, light as aluminum, impervious to nearly all weather/chemicals you face in picking/storage (see condensative rust) and it has that neat-o elastic-memory property... Oh and it just LOOKS so nice!

Cons: Cost of the raw material and the extra tooling needed to grind/cut out production quality sets (or home brew if you have the sheets/tools)

Huge environmental costs to extract the alloy


A TiN/C (Titanium Nitride/Carbide) coating would be very useful also! Either coating adds for substantial resistance to: wear, elements, breakage. That cool gold-like appearance from TiN gives a nice James-bond style appearance, like some kind of magic gold pick set - 1 try and Pop all locks open! Heh, only if...
Oh and the coatings themselves reduce friction, so picking becomes smoother I guess just for kicks, I'm going to see how much it would cost to get a couple sets coated. Proabably a lot....

[wraith]

v12v12, although geared towards bicycles, here's an excellent article explaining the differences between steel, aluminum, and titanium. There are also some common myths associated with the metals that are explored.

http://www2.sjsu.edu/orgs/asmtms/artcle/articl.htm

Trey

[mckutzy]

i would think that if u used Ti for a pick, there would be not enough strength in the length up to the working end. a steel pick tempered properly, with a TiNi coating would work better. but as long as the pick is not stressed too much as it would flex and flake off

[wraith]

i would think that if u used Ti for a pick, there would be not enough strength in the length up to the working end. a steel pick tempered properly, with a TiNi coating would work better. but as long as the pick is not stressed too much as it would flex and flake off

Interesting point, but moot. Ti would work just as well as steel, just more expensive.

As for the coating flaking off, doubtful, as the TiNi is bonded to the base metal (steel, ti, or aluminum). It will rub off eventually, as it is just a coating.

Personally, i'd use 6/4 ti for tools, and 3/2.5 for my tension wrenches... CP doesn't have the correct properties...

Keep in mind, the ONLY reason steel has come as far as it has is because it's been used the most. Titanium is some interesting stuff, almost magical, but not in it's pure form, only AFTER you alloy it does it start to get really kewl!

Trey

[v12v12]

I was assuming that we weren't talking about pure Ti, IE from rutile, ilmenite and leucoxene. As an alloy, even the lesser forms give decent steel alloys a run for overall strength, and of course steel has nothing in comparison for chemical/elemental/flex resistance. Price is the main limiting factor. Basically with holding cost Ti IS the superior metal to most forms of steel, even exotics such as Inconel. For picking, the main factors for the metal to withstand are:

1) Fatigue limit - Bending and twisting cycles of the pick in the plug

2) Abrasion wear - against the pins/sidewalls etc

3) Chemical exposure - rust/ corrosion when exposed to other metals/chemicals — surprisingly, it's pretty common for micro-grain sized pits of rust to start forming - say from coming out from the cold with your tools, and then to a warmer indoor climate. This forms tiny moisture droplets on the surface. Try leaving some ferrous tools on your car floor in the winter, and find them rusting away weeks later, just from sitting there. Though it may take a while, even decent coated SS will form rust pits, smaller than you may notice, but once it starts it doesn't stop unless treated and recoated/painted.

4) Weight, this may be a trivial point for a small set, but lugging around a full set of picks and tools made from steel is quite heavy Vs Ti.

Overall all I think Stainless or oiled steel is fine Vs the cost of titanium, but if I had my choice, it's Ti or even Hard coated Steel (TiN/C, TiCN, TiAlN) again, coatings add significant cost — basically equaling or more often surpassing basic Ti-3Al-2.5V. I'm just happy with my JP-A assortment.

Preparing for flamage...

[mckutzy]

to-che.. i guess ill bring the napalm and marshmallows. and yes i was talking about an alloy Ti pick but was referring to eg. a half diamond not really enough "meat" near the end. once again point taken.

[v12v12]

to-che.. i guess ill bring the napalm and marshmallows. and yes i was talking about an alloy Ti pick but was referring to eg. a half diamond not really enough "meat" near the end. once again point taken.

Oh I see what you mean, I didn't pick up on that before.... yeah these picks I have are pretty slim and that tips! WOrries me sometimes when I'm trying to add some tension... So... who's going to be the 1st hotshot to make themselves a DYI pick with custom laid Carbon Fiber handles?!! Now THAT would be an expensive set... Ti picks + Carbon handles!

[illusion]

okay... now WTH would putting carbon fibers onto picks do to improve them in terms of picking?

except add to the depression value should you lose them

[vector40]

BTW, I believe most safe-drilling bits are made from (well, probably just coated with) TiNi.

[v12v12]

okay... now WTH would putting carbon fibers onto picks do to improve them in terms of picking?

except add to the depression value should you lose them

Heh... Hrmm I don't know of any carbon-metallic materials that would be suitable for the high abrasion, but some kind of Aluminum-ceramic like Aluminum Oxide/silicate used in newer bike frames might be an option... Adding the fibers+themoset would make the picks extremely rigid, to the point of not flexing much it at all... depending on the weave, amount of fibers to themoset (basically exotic epoxy) ratio, and type of fibers... some fiber blends are made to flex and arch, most are for ultra rigidity.

It's just these materials are prone to snappage if overstressed Vs Steel which will flex, bend, and can be reshaped... Those Al alloys cannot afaik... But the price Vs practicality factor comes in and steel is #1 material of choice for me. But daaaam.... exotic picks, just seems so much more interesting to whip out and watch people go ooooooh, then go DOH as I fumble around trying to unsuccessfully pick American 700s!