Everest clarification

[Heliox]

Just so I'm clear, the only differences between the Schlage everest cylinder and a comparable regular schlage commercial cylinder is the special single check pin and the sometimes the keyway, right? Tolerances and pin spacing, MACS, etc. are all the same?

[zeke79]

Somewhat correct. Schlage works on a heirarchy system with their locks and keyways. Say an everest in C123 key operates both an everest 6 pin lock and a standard C123 6 pin lock just fine, the opposite will not be true. The standard C123 key will not be undercut correctly so it can be inserted into the everest cylinder.

[Heliox]

Right, but the constuction is otherwise the same? I've got a primus on my apartment door keyed with a standard schlage keyway (sc4 i suppose), so I'm familiar with the keyway issues, I just wanted to be sure about the rest of the lock. Thank you.

[zeke79]

Yes, you are correct.

[vector40]

SC4 is, IIRC, the Ilco designation for six-pin Schlage standard C-keyway.

Folks, understand what you mean when you use these terms. SC1, KW1, Y11, all of these codes are just the Ilco EZ system of naming BLANKS. Nothing wrong with that and it's quite common for the more prevalent ones, but (1) it's NOT the actual manufacturer designations, and (2) it's NOT a keyway system, it's a blank system.

The difference can be understood when you consider, say... C, SC1, and SC4. What's the difference? Well, C is a Schlage keyway, a dead common one. SC1 is a name for the five-pin blanks Ilco sells that can fit into C keyways... and SC4 is the name for the six-pin blanks with the same keyway.

Make sense?

[Heliox]

Makes perfect sense and explains why I keep finding different names for keyblanks/keyways. Really, I just need to spend some time running through the ilco catalog. Every time I look for something in it, I learn something new and interesting. I expect to learn even more when I buy a key machine next year. Thank you.

[vector40]

One other thing to watch out for is that the Ilco catalogue has a TON of stuff -- not just the common EZ-labeled blanks but also every other frickin' thing imaginable including bits of metal that are only questionably keys... and they also have different blanks that are just the same thing on the working end, but are different materials or different bows or different stamps or whatever. It's a little cumbersome.

If you're trying to figure out what's what with regards to keys, blanks, and keyways, I'd recommend putting the Ilco catalog and the manufacturer spec sheet (for the makers that supply decent ones -- forget BEST, American, and the other posers) and comparing the info to understand how it's presented differently. For instance, you can see that the Ilco Schlage blanks are designated -- the actual full code, not the EZ -- with serial numbers that end in the Schlage keyway names. So 1145J would ordinarily make me say "huh?" but now I understand that it's the same as what Schlage calls the J keyway, just as A1145J is the 6-pin variant, A1145EF is the six-pin EF keyway, and so on.

It's not as impenetrable as it seems... well, it can be, but there is rhyme and there is reason. All of that said, I'd still recommend using the manufacturer catalogs when possible and when they don't suck. It's just less headache unless you're actually ordering blanks from Ilco or something. (Just remember that many folks use the Ilco names as a standard.)

If anyone's curious why I'm rambling so much, it's because I've been doing this exact stuff recently, digging through key catalogs and keyway trees to build a really comprehensive list of bump keys. It's enough to make you hate the guys who give cr*p info on their websites... and it's enough to make you love the guys who set up their keyways in such a way that one or two keys will fit into every single lock they make. (And hey, Corbin/Russwin? You guys can ***** ** ***** * *******!#@%@#$)

[Varjeal]

Anything in termed restricted or high-security is held to stricter tolerances and generally higher grades of materials, especially in terms of high security locks.

In terms of name keyblanks, etc, the various names for a single blank were due to manufacuters naming their blanks differently in order to present a "different" product. Makers such as Jet, Curtis, Ilco, EZ, Axxess, Taylor, Star, blah blah blah, like to use their own designation.

As an example, we can take the ever popular "C" key from Schlage in it's 5 pin variant...here are just some of the #'s used.

1145
C101
167
SC1

Tha'ts four names for essentially the same thing. Some keys are even worse. The system isn't that hard to figure out once your used to it. My advice would be to choose one of the more popular systems and stick to it. It'll make it easier for you to communicate with your supplier and with other people.

As mentioned already, there are also a pile of blanks that if you compare profiles, you will find that one will fit into as many as a dozen or more...

ex. Y11's or 01122's.....

Makes key catalogs interesting reading.