NewB: Locks, Security, and Safe advice

[lawdog]

Well we all have to start somewhere so here I go.

I am a police officer and frequently give home security advice to homeowners and businesses. I know the basics, good locks, reinforced door frames, good locking windows, but I don't know who makes the good, fair, and poor products.

I am asking you guys since you work with these products every day.
For the average homeowner, myslef included who makes good locks and safes?

I usually recommend Schlage maximun security products. Are they any good? I was suprised after reasearching Kwikset here on the forum. I defiently will not be recommending them.

What about safes? Are sentry or Brinks any good. From searching it appears many of you call Sentry toy safes? Why is that? Who makes good fire, security safes around 1 cu ft that are reasonable. I am looking for one myself. I used to recommend Sentry safes but now I am not so sure. Also which is safer, dial or electronic keypads?

Also what is the recommended lubricate for locks? Graphite, Silicone, WD40. Reading on here this seems to be a controverisial topic.

Teach me I am all ears. I am always looking for more advice, handouts, web pages with more information I can pass on to my fellow LEO's and the public.

Thanks
Brett

[vector40]

If you're looking for an UNCONTROVERSIAL lubricant, Teflon- or silicon-based lube is probably it. (Looking for the BEST lubricant is where the controversy shows up.)

A good Schlage is indeed a fine choice for any home.

[lawdog]

Thanks Vector.

Are you knowledgeable about safes?

I am suprised by the number of homeowners who buy decent locks and throw them on a cheap door or unsupported door frame. I reinforced my door frame with additional studs and steel strapping along with a steel door.

Next I need to get a small safe for my personal papers and a good gun safe. My sig pistol does nothing for security when I am not home.

[HeadHunterCEO]

-AMSEC makes a good safe and are widely available
-Dials are far safer
-I like Arrow because they make quality locks ,e61 deabolt
i compare an mk11 to any of yales upper end stuff

[keysman]

It is probably good advise to stay away from kwickset not only are they pretty crappy locks , there are enough of them out there that the possibility of keys working the ‘wrong ‘ lock are pretty good.
I don’t use residential locks at all, my job is 100% commercial . The commercial grade Schalge locks are very good , I can’t say much for the ‘ residential grade ‘ F’ knobs and 360 series deadbolts . personally I wouldn’t have them on my property , I like the 500 series ( no longer made ) + 600 series deadbolts + the “A” locks or the ‘D “ for heavy duty use.
So far a safes go .. well if you can buy it at Walmart…. Sentry is Excellent fire protection .. hard to beat it for the price … but ZERO in burglary protection , there are numerous places on the web that will give you accurate information on how to open a sentry safe in 5 minutes or less.
Depending on your location ... Amsec or Adesco both make a good quality burgulary safe for a reasonable cost.

The choice of Dial or electronic is a matter of personal choice….. one thing I can guarantee is the electronics will fail at some point , when that is I don’t know , but it will fail . an old fashioned dial will work weather or not the batteries have been changed , the safe got wet or was in a fire or just plain forgotten.

Electronic locks are VERY convenient and the combo can be changed by the user with little training. They also look really cool!.

Lubrication … well you really do want to start a discussion .. actually graphite is great stuff.. it doesn’t mix well with liquid lubes .. and that causes many problems .
WD$) is good to clean a lock , but it doesn’t have any long term effect except to collect dirt
So use sparingly

Personally I like powered Teflon. Seems to work well and doesn’t get you dirty

[vector40]

Marc MacYoung has some nice info on reinforcing doors on his site: http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/homesecurity.html

[devildog]

I like Houdini lock lube; not sure what it has in it but I like it; you can get it from most locksmith supply places...and it smells like lemons, its preeeetty smell

Amsec is good, but it seems to me that they don't make anything smaller than the 5-6ft 'gunsafe size' safes; I like Gardall as they come in all shapes and sizes and, I believe, are UL listed (I AM 99% sure that they use UL listed Group 2 or better combo locks on everything they make).

Go here:
http://beta.thenationallocksmith.com/public.asp?1

The article that's on there is something that is a real good read ('I am a locksmith'), so read that if you want, but what you definately want to look at are the two articles over on the left, one is called 'Huff Puff' and the other is 'The Torture Chamber'--they test deadbolts and door hardware in one, and then padlocks in the other.

Schlage is actually pretty decent; the minimum I would recommend would be a Schlage Grade 2 residential deadbolt available at Home Depot and Lowes starting for about $26. DO NOT forget your door hardware (as you will see if you read 'Huff Puff'), as if you have Medecos on a regular wood door with a crappy strike plate, it will still be pretty easy to kick in. That article actually mentions my two favorite brands--MAG and Don Jo. They're probably available from a local lockie, and if not then I'm sure someone on here can point you in the right direction of a supplier.

With regards to deadbolts, if you only remember one thing: AT LEAST GRADE 2!!; this is the most important thing because we are generally concerned about FORCED ENTRY, NOT someone trying to pick or shim our locks, which you will see if you look here (and you REALLY should): http://www.statefarm.com/consumer/vhouse/articles/doorlock.htm

Now, if you want to start getting into REAL security, with regards to locks, safes, alarm systems, etc. then you're going to want something that is 'UL Listed'; that is, it's listed by Underwriter's Labrtories--http://www.ul.com/--which is VERY picky about which locks, safes, and alarms they list (a UL listing essentially amounts to about the best 'stamp of approval' a physical security device can have).

Here's their Security page: http://www.ul.com/ss/

Listed locks are 'UL 437 Listed', listed safes are 'UL 687 Listed' (please note that is for 'burglary resistant safes', fire-resistant ones and vault doors are separate, and the combination locks for safes are also rated separately from the safes themselves--this is where the whole group 1, group 2 thing comes in), while the listed combination locks for those safes are 'UL 768 Listed'.

http://ulstandardsinfonet.ul.com/scopes/0768.html
http://ulstandardsinfonet.ul.com/scopes/0437.html
http://ulstandardsinfonet.ul.com/scopes/0687.html

Those are just some summaries I came up with; you can get a list of all UL Listed products for each category (437, 687, etc.) off of their website, i.e. UL 437 door locks

That's everyone who's UL 437 under 'door locks' as of right now. Here's how to see which companies are listed under a UL standard: http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/std2ccnsrch.html

Go there and enter the standard you want to search for, i.e. 437, and then when you get to the results, click on what you're specifically looking for, and then on that page click on 'View Listings' in the upper left hand corner, which should give you all the companies with a UL 437 rating, for example.

Phew! Anyone got anything else, chuck it in!

[lawdog]

There is some really good knowledge here.
Thanks guys. After work I need to sit down and read though all the information.

I'm thinking I may be better off just buying one large safe to store my firearms and papers then 2 separate safes. More economical.

Now if I could only bribe somebody to lug one of those down my stairs into the basement!
Brett

[jason]

Nah just leave it in the front room - the weight of it alone will soon get it into your cellar/basement

[n2oah]

I can't stress this enough:
Make sure you bolt down your safe!

[Chrispy]

I had a customer come in today wanting to buy a safe. When he asked what the holes in the bottom were for, I told him that that's where you bolt it to the floor. His reponse....

"Why would you need to bolt it down? It's a safe."

[Auto45]

I had a customer come in today wanting to buy a safe. When he asked what the holes in the bottom were for, I told him that that's where you bolt it to the floor. His reponse....

"Why would you need to bolt it down? It's a safe."

Next time just tell them there vent holds.

[jason]

Problem is - if you tell him that he's likely to try lock his pedigree pet cat in there when he goes out!

[wraith]

I had a customer come in today wanting to buy a safe. When he asked what the holes in the bottom were for, I told him that that's where you bolt it to the floor. His reponse....

"Why would you need to bolt it down? It's a safe."

You could tell him, "If you lose your combo, that's where a locksmith goes through to pick the lock..."

Trey

[illusion]

hehehe... for those kind of skills you need a ninja....

I think DB's the man you want to talk to