False Sets

[puterxprt]

Hello, I'm new to picking and I've been having a real problem with false sets. It seems that I get them constantly, especialy on locks with master keys (such as my dormatory door). I was wondering if there are any recomendations on common techniques that tend to cause this and if anyone has ideas on what I can change to help prevent it.

thanks

[grit1]

First of all, to head off the line of flamers certainly at your heels in a matter of hours, picking locks that aren't yours is a bad idea and against the ethics of this board. People don't look fondly upon those who pick locks they don't own. There is also the chance that you could mess up the lock.

But, since I'm also in a college dorm situation I may be able to help. Chances are, and you can confirm or refute this, that your dorm/college employs a BEST Access Systems SFIC [small format interchangeable core] system that allows for complicated master key systems and easy re-keying.

If this is the case, I would recommend trying to find [on e-bay or similar] an SFIC core or two to practice on, then searching the board for SFIC to get some tips and pointers on how to deal with the complex construction of these well-made cores. Good luck! ~Grit.

[puterxprt]

thanks, and I wasn't meaning to get myself flamed.

I've mostly been practicing on padlocks and cores, but how can you resist a lock five feet from you?

I've been getting a lot of false sets on the padlocks as well tho.

[Pickermeapie]

False sets occur because of security pins. With that said, are the pins simply not catching on the shear line, or does your lock have security pins in it? If it has a security pin, can you tell if it is catching on a serrated, mushroom or spool pin? The only SFIC core to my knowledge that has security pins in it is the KeyMark. Master keying should make things easier for you as there is more than one break point in each pin stack.
-pickermeapie

[illusion]

hmm..

if you apply to much tension you can upset your picking by getting the bottom pin stuck along with the top pin... I did this loads when I started, I played about with different amounts of tension, and found the right one.

mushroom pins, I've found tend to try and force the plug to go back to its neutral position.. spools seem to let you pick them, but when you turn the cylinder it turns a bit, but gets stuck.

funny.... the last time I picked a master-keyed lock I found that when I turned the cylinder the master-keying discs fell out... Maybe it was just my lock, but I've found just putting my tension wrench to cover the holes in the cylinder stops this...

good luck picking

[puterxprt]

What tends to happen to me (and just not on this lock) is that the bottom pins tend to go past the sheer line along with the top pins and get bound, the lock turns, but the top pin won't drop back. This is just a guess as to what's happening because of the fact that the inner cylinder turns slightly and the bottom pin wont drop back w/ gravity, then I eventualy get what I feel as being all the pins set and the lock won't open.

[illusion]

a quick answer would that you are using too much tension... use less tension and see if this works

[quickpicks]

The only SFIC core to my knowledge that has security pins in it is the KeyMark.

Best now has the option of security pins for their locks and in most of the new ones, the holes at the bottom of the cylinder used for pushing the pins out is now a slot. I think this makes it extremely hard to pick them ath the control key shear line.

[Pickermeapie]

What tends to happen to me (and just not on this lock) is that the bottom pins tend to go past the sheer line along with the top pins and get bound, the lock turns, but the top pin won't drop back. This is just a guess as to what's happening because of the fact that the inner cylinder turns slightly and the bottom pin wont drop back w/ gravity, then I eventualy get what I feel as being all the pins set and the lock won't open.

Is it a SFIC? IF it turns about 10 Degrees you may have picked the Control shear line. Try to pull the cylinder out the next time you feel as if this has happened.

[grit1]

If it is a SFIC core and you can't get the plug to turn, it is because they're not "false sets" but true sets on the wrong shear-line. If you don't get all of the pins set to one of the two shear line positions they will bind against eachother and you'll get nowhere.

A picture of the lock could help! ~Grit.

[vector40]

Figure out if you actually do have an SFIC. That changes things.

If you do, the core should look like a figure-eight and probably say BEST, Falcon, Arrow, or something similar on the front.

[Pickermeapie]

Or a peanut.

[puterxprt]

Here are two locks I've been having this problem with:



and the other is this one:

[vector40]

Yep, that's a BEST SFIC.

[Mad Mick]

And you are probably getting false-sets from the spools in the Brinks padlock. Understanding the shape of a spool pin and the reason why it causes false-sets will help you.

I made an animation a while ago...you can find it here. Hint: A false-set spool will allow further pins to be set, but until the false-set spool is set correctly, you may as well try to braid sawdust.