Warning: KABA locks

[wtf|pickproof?]

I got my first KABA Quatro in my fingers and picked it in 'bout 20 minutes. It was quite easy to pick (dunno whether further discussion in public forums is OK)

The bad news is: The pins fell into the keyway after picking it. That wasn't too much of a case, as the lock in question was from the waste box of some really nice lockmith (check this:http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=8184) Just be prepared!

[zeke79]

This happens with alot of dimple locks. Your best bet is after picking to only rotate the plug 10 degrees or less .

[wtf|pickproof?]

Well, I figured that too. I am currently thinking about a method which enables me to fully turn the plug. I might try a plug spinner, but i don't own one. So I am thinking of grinding/fileing a key so i can put it in after picking.

[Pickermeapie]

Well, I figured that too. I am currently thinking about a method which enables me to fully turn the plug. I might try a plug spinner, but i don't own one. So I am thinking of grinding/fileing a key so i can put it in after picking.

Yep been known for a lil' while. After picking, simply take a blank that enters the keyway, and has close clearances between the top an bottom of a keyway so as to keep the pins in whilst turning. Any ol' blank will do to. Doesn't have to be a KABA blank

[digital_blue]

I've also thought about using a plug spinner on a dimple lock. You can check out tshock's thread on building one from a mousetrap spring. Let me know if it works. Better your free kabas than mine that I payed for.

db

[dxlocks]

I got my first KABA Quatro in my fingers and picked it in 'bout 20 minutes. It was quite easy to pick (dunno whether further discussion in public forums is OK)

The bad news is: The pins fell into the keyway after picking it. That wasn't too much of a case, as the lock in question was from the waste box of some really nice lockmith (check this:http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=8184) Just be prepared!

Are you sure it was a Quattro?, i have 2 of these locks and no pins ever misplace themselves into the cylinder after picking.

[wtf|pickproof?]

Yep been known for a lil' while. After picking, simply take a blank that enters the keyway, and has close clearances between the top an bottom of a keyway so as to keep the pins in whilst turning. Any ol' blank will do to. Doesn't have to be a KABA blank

No problem with using original keyblanks, as my nice lockie gave some to me.

I've also thought about using a plug spinner on a dimple lock. You can check out tshock's thread on building one from a mousetrap spring. Let me know if it works. Better your free kabas than mine that I payed for. Wink

I'll give it a try and post feedback here.

Are you sure it was a Quattro?, i have 2 of these locks and no pins ever misplace themselves into the cylinder after picking.

hmm, welll, .... I can't think of any lock which could be missunderstood for a quattro. The key even has "quattro" stamped on it, so I'm quite sure it's a quatro.

[dxlocks]

Ok then.

Mine don't have that problem, though the gemini do,

Anyone tried Kaba Expert? I have a few and have unfortunately yet been able to open them

[GateTwelve]

Old thread spawned from my misfortune: http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=7704

[wtf|pickproof?]

Doh, I read that bout half a year ago, just didn't remember

I'll try a plug spinner, some foam, and some thread later on. I won't accept I cannot nondstrucktively open that darned locks ...

... there is a reason I choose my nick ....

[Wolf2486]

Ha, ha. I've done this as well on my first Kaba (I believe I even posted about it to some extend). But as has been previously said, just use a filed down key to put at the bottom.

[wtf|pickproof?]

I have now picked my KABAs serveral times without any destruction. Just don't turn them any further than 'bout 10 degrees. I'll post any working method that enables you to fully turn the lock as soon as I tested it. By now any of the suggested methods (foam, modified keyblank, plugspinner) seems reasonable to me.

I'd like to use a KABA key with all position cut to maximum depth (same as a bump key) and then take 1/3 off on the other side. But my lockie by now refuses to cut me one.

The plug spinner will almoust certenly work, as it has about 10 dregrees to accelerate the lock.


Whatever, I'll keep you informed on actual test results, as soon as there are some.

[Electra]

Guys, did you have picked KABA Quatro or not? How? What kind of tools did you use? I wish to put on on my door.

[raimundo]

I was thinking that the shortest pins might still need some higher support, and the idea that came to mind was one of those compressed sponges that expand when dampened, like you might be able to find at a garden supply shop, put a strip of this in and wet it to hold the pins up. Can anyone think of other material that expands with a change of some sort, temperature, electric current etc, I think there was discussion long ago about using a rubbler tube and air inflation. I suppose in an emergency you could use an un chewed stick of gum

[Omikron]

I was thinking that the shortest pins might still need some higher support, and the idea that came to mind was one of those compressed sponges that expand when dampened, like you might be able to find at a garden supply shop, put a strip of this in and wet it to hold the pins up. Can anyone think of other material that expands with a change of some sort, temperature, electric current etc, I think there was discussion long ago about using a rubbler tube and air inflation. I suppose in an emergency you could use an un chewed stick of gum

The main problem I see with using any type of expanding substrate to hold the pins up is that it would have to hold the pins up to the shear line, and no further. Sponges would conceivably push the pins up past the shear line when turned.

The only way to do this, is picking the cylinder open and rotating the plug only about 10 degrees or so, then fill the keyway with a *drying*, expanding foam. One that expands, pushes the pins against the inner wall of the cylinder, then dries and locks in place. The problem with even doing this is that no "perfect foam" exists, and there is a very good chance that there is still some residual pressure pushing against the pins, which would still lock up the cylinder once rotated to the next row of pins.

Even if such a "perfect foam" existed, and worked, the lock would very likely require complete disassembly afterwards so all the foam could be cleaned out and the lock re-lubricated.

Although a plug spinner could probably work for standalone picking cylinder not being used in a real lock, I have reservations for how useful they would be in the field. Under normal operation, a plug spinner is used to clear a single shear line, with the plug exhibiting little or no tension during the short operation cycle, meaning, that the plug is more or less free to turn fairly quickly. Under standalone operation, the plug in a Kaba cylinder would not be under any type of tension, regardless of how far the plug was turned, so all four (or five for the Penta) shear lines would be cleared with relative ease.

In operation however, it is likely that the lock begins to engate the bold or the latch partway through the turn, thereby introducing a very significant amount of tension into the system. I do not believe the plug spinner would be able to overcome this tension fast enough to clear all four (or five) shear lines.

As I see it, the optimal solution would be yet another Falle-type manipulaton device that is able to individually extend supporting wires for each pin on each of the varying axis. Such a tool would be very expensive, and very delicate. Then again, show me a Falle tool that ISN'T expensive and delicate!

Thoughts? Considerations?