Security Expert

[Puppeteer]

Hello everyone,
I would first like to say that I am very impressed with your website and that I hope to become a respectable member.
My job is a security expert, I am hired by companies to test their security systems, all of the tests are on computers. However, i just received a phone call from a school that wanted me to not only test their computer security, but also to test the security that keeps people out from various rooms in the school (aka their locks on their doors). I said that I was currently learning how to do this and in the meantime I would test their computers. I am currently reading the MIT guide to lock picking, and I am located in Canada. What I am looking for is a lock picking set that will allow me to pick locks that are found in door handles and also is bolt locks (locks found above the handle of the door). I would like to know of either a lock picking set that would be done by hand, and also an electric one to look at. I can have the products ordered to the states, that is not a problem. I am looking to spend under $150 USD. thank you very much!

_-Puppeteer-_

[SFGOON]

Ohhh wow....

If you're a security expert this should be elementary to you.

Your story is not credible.

The MIT guide to lockpicking is publicly available.

Your school hired the wrong guy - why would a school want that sort of security survey, anyway? What do they have to gain and why don't they ask a real locksmith.

[Puppeteer]

allow me to elaborate....
I am advertised as a security expert but i do COMPUTER SECURITY, this is my job. The reason I wanted to start learning how to lock pick is because companies and/or people not only want computer security but they also want an overall security check, this is slowly becoming more demanding in Canada.

_-Puppeteer-_

[SFGOON]

Okay - I'm a touch suspicios - the k3wl kids always want to h@cX their schools so your brinng up a school raises my hackles a touch.

1. download the MIT guide to lockpicking and memorize

2. visit www.southord.com to purchase a basic 8 piece lockpicking set.

3. Purchase several kwitset deadbolts and practice until you can open them all fairly quickly

Do all this, and you'll be a LOT better recieved here - and you'll be able to contribure to the dicussion rather than asking for info that been on the boards for years.

There's a search key you should make prudent use of.

If you're legit, welcome to the forums.

[digital_blue]

Call me naive, but I tend to be less suspicious than the rest of the bunch.

You could also check out www.lockpickshop.com. They offer members of this site a 10% discount off regular prices items. Put LP101 in the coupon code.

Hope this helps! Welcome to the site!

db



P.S. I think the rash of utter n00bs has got everyone a bit riled, so don't take it too personally.

[Chrispy]

Ask a locksmith to accompany you on this survey, pointing out some security concerns. You'll have to pay the hourly labour fee for him to do it, but you can then recover some of that fee from the school when you get paid (bump your fee up a bit).

All you would need is to walk around the entire school and check out every lock and entry point (gates, classrooms, store rooms, etc.) and get the locksmith to tell you what is wrong with their current equipment and what could be done to fix it. Perhaps creating a scale and getting the lockie to rate each entry point from one to five (or ten or whatever) on security.

Include his comments in your security report/risk analysis and acknowledge his work.

Sorry mate, but any comments you give on physical security would be irrelevant and potentially damaging to your reputation, no matter how much you learn in a week. You're a computer security expert, not a physical security expert.

[Chance]

Listen to Chrispy, puppet guy. That was a very informative post, and could greatly enhance your business. I would even suggest you find a local locksmith to handle this aspect of your business as some sort of limited partnership. I can't learn computer hacking in a week, why can you (anyone) expect to learn my craft so quickly?

Chance

[TOWCH]

If their only concern phisical security wise is interior doors that makes things a lot easier.

[hzatorsk]

Hello everyone,
...My job is a security expert, I am hired by companies to test their security systems, all of the tests are on computers..., but also to test the security that keeps people out from various rooms in the school (aka their locks on their doors). ...
_-Puppeteer-_

If you are a security expert in the computer field... please recall the physical security domain from your CISSP or SANS training.

Less than a single percentage of physical security addresses locks, but many other aspects of security including cameras, fences, lighting, key control processes, verifying procedures, ensuring HR is performing background checks for employees, procedures for seperation of duties to prevent employee collusion, etc...

A physical security analysis is not trying to pick locks or sneak contraband past metal detectors. While that is a part of it from time to time... you better like jail food... because a REAL physical security penetration test will cause your frequent arrest and no amount of CEO signed paperwork will by you a pass until morning when things finally get straightened out.

If you are asked to jiggle locks and doors... you are to politely refuse as the customer is not wanting a physical security analysis... they are wanting a scapegoat in case something goes wrong (or already has).

Leave the lock jiggling to a locksmith who is bonded and familar with the proper remedial actions to weaknesses that are discovered.

[digital_blue]

That sounds like pretty good advice hzatorsk.

db

[Chrispy]

Hehe, jailbait.

[silent]

If you want to be a true professional about it go to LSI and get certified, it will be look good for advertising too.

[raimundo]

look at their keys, look for extra cuts on the side or unique types of keys, then do a search here for that brand of lock. Go to www.crypto.com for some really good reading on locks, and the masterkey rights amplification, then contact varjeal about a set of bogotas, you can probably become a proficient picker in a couple hours with a good set of those, but only on the common types of locks, you still have to recognize the difference between common pin tumblers, pickable spool tumblers and sidebar types.

[devnill]

Hello everyone,
...My job is a security expert, I am hired by companies to test their security systems, all of the tests are on computers..., but also to test the security that keeps people out from various rooms in the school (aka their locks on their doors). ...
_-Puppeteer-_

If you are a security expert in the computer field... please recall the physical security domain from your CISSP or SANS training.

Less than a single percentage of physical security addresses locks, but many other aspects of security including cameras, fences, lighting, key control processes, verifying procedures, ensuring HR is performing background checks for employees, procedures for seperation of duties to prevent employee collusion, etc...

A physical security analysis is not trying to pick locks or sneak contraband past metal detectors. While that is a part of it from time to time... you better like jail food... because a REAL physical security penetration test will cause your frequent arrest and no amount of CEO signed paperwork will by you a pass until morning when things finally get straightened out.

If you are asked to jiggle locks and doors... you are to politely refuse as the customer is not wanting a physical security analysis... they are wanting a scapegoat in case something goes wrong (or already has).

Leave the lock jiggling to a locksmith who is bonded and familar with the proper remedial actions to weaknesses that are discovered.

Although hzatorsk is right, It may look good in a resume that _-Puppeteer-_ handles all aspects of securety. Not everybody knows that physcial securety is not a majr problem, and dont want to hire a slew of consultants to do the job that one can.

*if*_-Puppeteer-_'s intentions are good, i think getting training, and a certification in locksmithing is a good idea.

[capt.dunc]

hello puppeteer, and welcome to the site. there's a lot of good advice in the above so read it and spend some time having a good look around the site. it would be good for us if you could feed back on how you get on.