One to watch out for

[toomush2drink]

I did a job sunday night on a door like nothing ive come across before.The lock wasnt working so i had to strip it down and take a look.This door has multiple shot bolts made of 20mm thick steel. The lock, a 4 way euro dimple lock, is protected by a rose about 20 mm thick all of the way round. The protective rose looks a bit like a hockey puck.The brand is called gardesa and is something you are not going to get through forcibly. check out these site for more information on them and look at how the lock has and extended tail to attach a door knob.Look at the euro examples then look at the fact the door can be supplied with a double bitted safe type lock !! You wouldnt even guess it was anything special as the door come covered in a plywood finished to your choice,very deceiving.

http://www.gardesa.net/home.aspx
http://www.gardesa.net/blindPorta.aspx?XP=0&XS=2&CS=0&MP=
http://www.gardesa.net/blindPorta.aspx?XP=0&XS=1&CS=0&MP=

This job was a headache as the lock had totally failed and the construction meant that only a euro cylinder with oneside 25mm would fit. I had to fit a 25/25 thumbturn cylinder as a temporary solution so they could go out and advised they contact the manufactuer. Picking the lock would be harder due to the rose and new longer picks and tension tools would be needed, a nightmare entry but a nigel rose product could work in theory, and i shall say no more than that in the open forums.

This is something i would consider fitting in a high risk area as it even has the option of ballistic protection !!

[Shrub]

Ive seen one of these for sale on ebay a while ago, ive also been told that the NR tool does work or at least a home made one did.

I wouldnt like the bited key one though.

[NKT]

That model R498 looks like something out of a nightmare! I think if you couldn't get around it (smash a window!) you would be looking at charging for a safe opening for that one. 4 bolts in the middle, two top and two bottom, laminated steel with anti-everything, and gunshot resistant!

Call SFGOON! We need Thermite!

[pinky]

some of these double bitted locks are key changing too, dont change the lock just the key.
cisa make similar, these are popular in spain and in italy and across europe.

[toomush2drink]

Smash a window eh nkt ? this one was fitted to a top floor flat so no chance of that unless you abseil down to it swat style.

[Chrispy]

Smash a window eh nkt ? this one was fitted to a top floor flat so no chance of that unless you abseil down to it swat style.

So what was stopping you?

[pinky]

ah sub the swat job to super sid!!!!!

[toomush2drink]

Im sure sid probably carries a pocket abseil kit

[workstation]

Toomush,

These types of steel doors are popular in Europe, increasingly so as they get cheaper. I don't think the ones currently imported are much good for the British market at the moment, though, as they never get the design right.

Most of these steel doors do have big vulnerabilities. We all know the many ways of breaking euro cylinders, but those double-bitted locks are also often not strong or well designed, even the big-name manufacturers'.

A good website about steel doors available in the Russian market is [url]kriminalist.com[/url]

Pinky,

Those key changing mechanisms are all very well, but when is someone going to design one that fits into standard lock cylinders?

[Chrispy]

Speaking of steel doors, a guy came into the store the other day and asked if we could change his locks.

"What kind of lock do you want?"

"Ze vun with the holes on ze key."

"A Gemini?"

"Does it have holes?"

"Yup, let me get one for you."

Showed him a Gemini mortise cylinder and then he asked about the locks with the bolts.

"Do you have door with bolts?"

"A deadbolt? Yes, we have deadbolts."

"No, no, a door with ze bolts up and down. You know, up and down and across."

" "

"Like dis, come."

He took me around to the safe section and pointed to a CMI safe with bolts going up into the top of the safe and across into the side of the safe

"Dat, door with up and down and across. I vant that lock."

"To get a door with that type of locking system, you would basically have to get a vault door made. They use those doors on vaults. I don't think you need a door like that."

"You can get?"

"You don't need a door like that. Is it on a house or a apartment unit?"

"Unit."

"Ohhhh kaaaaay, you can't put a door like that on an apartment unit. Fire regulations."

"Pfft, they can get in Moscow. Ok, you show me alarm."

Twenty minutes of alarm system demonstration and security camera specs...... now back to the lock.....

"Vat about this?"

"BiLock? Very good lock. You will need to register a system with us."

"Never mind. You show me lock for sliding door. It at back of unit. Lead to pool."

"A sliding door? Glass sliding door?"

"Yes. Need good lock, one on door, bad."

"You have a glass sliding door at the back, and you wanted a vault door for your front door?"



So after some more to-ing and fro-ing, he walked out with nothing and left me with a headache and a line of customers waiting to be served.


Meh, thought I would share.

[toomush2drink]

Workstation these particular ones have stacks of security around the euro cylinder, very hard to damage it to gain entry.I spoke to the supplier today as i needed a replacement cylinder for it and he remembered instaling it. Hes installing a lot around london and prices start at about £1250 plus vat. They are italian and he reckons they have really been tested out there in the lab and on the street, so very strong. The cylinder i came across was at the bottom end of their security and they are £70 plus vat.He also mentioned that he had fitted 10 to the block of flats i went to .He also pointed out as the skins are made of whatever finish you want its quite easy to change thre appearence of a house or flats entrance, great for all those house fashion tarts.

[bonez]

these sound like a f***ing nightmare!!!!!

here's to any advice you come up with 2mush
unless it's leave well alone!

[Shrub]

Pull the cylinder and give then another if its desparate.

[acl]

I dont know if you guys remember the Keyprint stand at Gmex but they had some brilliant looking Spainish picks for this kind of stuff not sure it they would open this particular lock but some of the locks on the stand wouldve given the best of us a mild coranary but the guy was bashing them open like we would a bird cylinder.Ok you lot would im still struggling with the Birds.
Andy

[Shrub]

I must have another look through their catalogue, cheers Andy, by the way have a good 'un mate