Tempering

[jellywerker]

Ok shrub, I'll agree with that, but one thing, about horseshoes, you want them to have a hard shell and a softer inside, so they don't crack under pressure, like how you would temper a hammer.

[jellywerker]

I can't delete it, so could a mod edit out the info and direct viewers further down to shrub's article?

[Omikron]

Hmmm...

I think I'm going to agree with Shrub here, as he raisies some very valid points.

You see, I don't know the first thing about tempering and I'm the type of person who will search for and reads all threads on the subject. Such a thread would cause a conflict of information.

If there are several people who agree that the information in the OP is wrong, then I also vote for deletion.

[Shrub]

Ok shrub, I'll agree with that, but one thing, about horseshoes, you want them to have a hard shell and a softer inside, so they don't crack under pressure, like how you would temper a hammer.

Yes thats case hardening, also achieved with you method.

Lets leave it alone if you want, if someones interested they will read the entire thread and not only get the link for that great guide by dry but also see that a differance of opinion can be resolved without flames.

I do realise you know what your saying in your instance but unfortunatley it was just in the wrong context unfortunatley i was perhaps a little abrupt in saying so.

A call for Db or zeke i guess but no had feelings my end nor any directed at you jelly

[Gear Head]

Tempering anything takes quite a bit of knowlege and experience. Look for information on knifemaking, not ferrier work. I would assume that most of the materials you guys are using is tool steels. The only thing you can safely quench in water is mild steels. Yes you can use water on better steel, like how you can run a car without ever changing the oil. Speaking of oil, you can do a intturupted oil quench, get it to a even cherry red, not sparking but just under, make sure the whole surface is heated inside and out, then dunk into motor oil for about 3 seconds, pull out, and repeat, on something that small I would imagine it would be a shorter interval, something you will have to play with. You need a reference to tell the hardness of it, and we use sets of files at a certain hardness. Oh and the oil, is safe to use, and I doubt you will quench enough to get it to flash point, which would be bad.

[Gear Head]

I will try to do a write up on it, but right now I'm at work running 2 trains of thought at once.

[Shrub]

Yes oil is the better medium and no you dont reach the flash point but 2 things,
Noobs dont have access to oil as readily as water and its difficult to store and dispence properly of if young,
Water is ok for most things as long as you have enough of it.

I dont quite understand your quenching for 3 secs then doing it again, it doesnt deepen the hardness anymore although i dont see it would harm the material if you did do it but theres no advantage at all, you heat and quench until cold.

No were useing mostly spring steel like hacksaw blades, tool steel isnt the thing to make picks out of and neither is mild steel but if you have to MS is ok if you harden and temper it to a decent hardness.

[Gear Head]

I do an interupted quench so it doesn't get too hard. . Tool steels can be tricky with water.

[Shrub]

Your method is only if the material is prone to cracking or shattering if plunged i a cold substance for a period after getting so hot, the way around that is that you should use heated oil or room temprture water and not cold water but what ever works for you.

In my experiance tool steel isnt tricky with water at all anfd we arent useing tool steel anyway so theres no problem.

[Gear Head]

Yes, I normally deal with crazy steel, but yea, there is also stuff you can add to water for quenching lower grade high carbon steels. Sea salt works, and shouldn't be too hard to find at a pet store or the like. Its the duration that messes with it, If I overheat a high carbon steel, I can hit it in water for a split second to drop to a lower heat without breaking it.

[Shrub]

To be honest ive used water for stuff from bean cans to carbide and never had a problem, oil is smelly and messy on the work but yes stick with that if having problems but with oil you should be able to quench properly, reheating and quenching to get a hardness could damage the steel surface.

[Gear Head]

I can appriciate that. I leared tempering with that method, it is supposed to be as good as a cryogenic temper.

[Shrub]

Well as i say, if it works for you then fine,

Where you from? what do you make/do then?

[Gear Head]

I moved from just outside of houston to just outside of San Antonio Texas. I moved from working as a full time smith with my teacher to college, and I lack tools to finish knives on my own at my current location. I probly have about 5 hobbies and expenses going at once.

[Shrub]

Was it general black smithing you did/do or farrier work or specialised knife making etc?