Design a mortice

[pinky]

In fairness picking isnt their top priority when designing a lock, attack from the conventional burglar is what they are considering.

an unpickable lock or an unbreakable lock holds its own dangers once it goes wrong locking householders in, which can be a major fire risk.

NKT is on the right track, make the lock harder to kick in or cut out, leave it pickable but a tricky pick is probably the best means.

remember though, that no matter what lock is made that is openable by key or blip, if a key of any type including electronic or magnetic opens the door, then a tool can be made to also do same.

ERA have succeeded in rendering current decoder methods useless they have rendered all current curtain picks useless against it with the exception of the modified cb pick which will be released soon, so they havnt done a bad job here.
but i bet safeventures will soon have a new toy for this and others will follow.

[toomush2drink]

If you want a classic example of burglars exploiting a weankness take a look at this locksmiths adverts http://www.asllocks.com/www/steel_security_doors.asp They have a lovely picture of a door fitted with 2 banhams that it didnt make the slightest bit of difference to. I think steels doors and the like are the way forward as burglars are likely to use brute force rather than picking ability as this example shows.£200+ worth of locks meant nothing in this instance.

[raimundo]

Mortise locks weaken the door proportionately to the amount of cavity required and the amount of armor or stiffening plate they apply to the both sides of that weak spot. therefore the best mortise lock would require the least cavity, the best would be just a drill hole. quick to install, and less wood removed from the door. I do not understand why it is so conventional to install locks in door and strikeplates in door frames. It would be stronger the other way around if the door frame was substantial. hardened rollers in the bolt are a good saw frustrator, and if the bolt itself could rotate a bit like the bolt in a rifle that fires from a closed bolt that would be good. also, why do dead bolts have to go full throw before becoming effective. couldn't a rachet mechanism like the one on handcuffs be used locking in each eighth of an inch, ( I would design it with two pawls, one above and one beneath the bolt. ofsetting the rachets above and below, would also allow even smaller increments to be locked in. the redundency would also help against any malfunction that may occur if someone sticks their gum on the rachet and like the dual ignition systems in aircraft, its a belt and suspenders approach)

[NKT]

As far as the lovely photos of the kicked-in doors on http://www.asllocks.com/www/steel_security_gallery.asp go, most of those doors are never going to be secure, since they are internal doors! The cardboard honeycomb gives it away. A cheap internal wooden panelled door isn't much better, as seen in the top-rightmost photo, especially when it didn't have a mortice lock at all, just a latch that was too high up.
The funny thing about the majority of those photos is that they are in London, and the locks are normally pretty hot down there. However, in the case of the Banhams, the door cost about £30, while the two locks cost over £200. It's like buying the best bike chain in the world, and securing your bike to a plastic drainpipe.

The whole point of the mortice on the bottom 1/3 is to stop attacks like this, which they do, as long as the door wasn't £20!

For £50 you can get yourself a solid wood 44m firedoor from B&Q or a timber merchant. Put a latch and a deadlock on it, or two deadlocks, and it will stop a man with an axe for at least 20 minutes continuous attack. (That's the same time spec. a gun cabinet has to meet.) Another idea would have been to swap the door around so it was outwards opening, as the frame would then have given support to the door, and it would have had to be pried rather than just pushed.

As regards fitting the lock into the frame, it's not a bad idea, but where would you put the keyhole?

Generally, with a mortice, the key will either throw and lock the bolt, or it won't and the door isn't left half-secured. That old trick of putting tape or a spring over the end doesn't work, either, not with a BS lock.

The BS locks generally already have a pair of loose steel pins for anti-saw, which are designed to spin if cutting is attempted. They will with a handsaw, and they will a bit with a power saw, but a grinder spins them until it bites, and they fail just the same. Some go for a through-hardened steel bolt, though.

One thing more common on the continent is the double throw deadlock. For a 3" deadlock, you could easily have 1" (25mm) of bolt, which is 5mm more than even the new spec.

An easy way to stop the door lock being thrust through the face of the door would be a spike or two of steel, about 6" long, that went back into the door. Just mortice like normal, then drill two deep holes into the door, screw the spikes onto the lock, and re-fit. It would make it far harder to cut the lock out, too, as suddenly it's 9" out and back instead of 3".

To stop the frame getting smashed down, get a few 6" screws and drive them into the wall. That's far more support than the average internal frame gets, which is a few 2" nails! Conceal them behind the hinges or the door itself so they can't be removed from the outside.

I'm thinking that £1500 doors are a solution for few people. I got turned down for a quote today for firedoor work for ~£1500 by a big company as it was too expensive. Only lawyers and the like are going to afford a door like that! Better to improve the lock so it secures the door, even if the door is pants. Or cardboard!

[nicholls]

In responce to raimundo.

Yes the mortice does weaken a door and maybe we should add some sort of mandatory 'sash-plate' that covers the key hole and allows a special handle type to be attached.

This could be say a brass plate with a hard plate insert that bolts through 4 seperate holes through the door, thus strengthening the mortice, and protects the lock.

[NKT]

You can already buy anti-thrust plates, but no-one bothers for a decent exterior door. The door should be 44mm thick, so that leaves a good amount of wood available for strength. Far more important is that the morticing job is a good one. Having a 3 or more mm gap down the side means that the lock isn't held securely, and once force is applied, you will get the back edge of the lock loading a small area of door quite highly, and the front edge on the other side. Next thing you know, the wood bursts there, but not because of a poor lock or door, but because it was badly fitted.

If it's an interior door, it's only 34 or 35mm thick, and made of a weak laminate of wood on either side of a cardboard honeycomb. Light and easy to fit, but no use for a secured door.

The BS Pro-Fit from ERA is 17 or 18mm wide, and you use a 19mm bit. The instructions clearly say to suit doors over 39mm thick. With a 34mm door, you have only 7.5mm of wood, if you get it dead on in the middle. Add a shody fitting, and you only have perhaps 5mm of wood holding the lock in the door! No wonder they fail easily. With a good job on a good door, you have 12.5mm of wood either side. Combined with the mass of the door, and no travel in the door before it is stopped by the bolt, it is going to be immune to anyone without a team and a battering ram.

By comparison, my uPVC door is about 60mm thick, and newer ones are even thicker. They have multiple point locking systems, but aren't as secure, in my opinion, unless they have one of the latest hook or claw bolt locking systems.

Anyway, I'm going to draw up some designs. I've got some great ideas.

[toomush2drink]

You are missing my point nkt which is there are already locks around that do the job but its pointless if the door and frame arent up to it. Im always recommending london bars etc but customers still think a good lock is the best thingto have as they are marketed a lot more.Take most bs locks on the market, the packaging makes a big point of its anti pick with hardened an anti saw bolt etc etc but they never say to make it really worthwhile fit it to a solid door with frame reinforcement etc.

[nicholls]

I'll tell you the best door i have come accross. It was made of japanese oak and virtually no grain, i don't think my drill liked it. But in the case of having a oak door and pine frame a birmingham bar or london bar is always the best bet.

I had a door once where it had a bs sash lock and two mortice bolts, someone used a fairly large stone and the frame where the locks where collapsed, the lock were still locked inn the door!!!! But holes in the frame, obviously.

[raimundo]

I was thinking about the design and I came up with one that requires no wood removed from the door. Once again, it would be a door frame designed to contain the lock, but no bolt would go into a hole, the bolt would be replaced by something that has three sides to it, (like a piece of channel iron) and when the door is locked, this would come out from the frame and grip the edge of the door on both sides) this would elimininate any removal of wood at all from the door. Since kickers succeed best when they kick directly over the strong point, this could be incorportated into the top edge of the door frame where kicking would be near impossible without a ladder. Kicking on a door with a lock mounted high and the kicks are beneath that strong point causes the door to make a lot of noise as it gives slightly and springs back, it can continue to do this long after the kicker wears himself out. I am offering this idea because the title of the thread is 'design' so I feel no obligation to stick up for the old ideas. The idea of putting a piece of channel iron over the top of the door also helps to keep the various boards that are glued together to form the door from separating at their joints. the thing could be operated by something like a safe door, where unlocking is one thing and withdrawing the bolts is another lever. and linkages guarded inside the frame could transmit the lift.

[NKT]

That's a great idea. Taking that and running with it, you get a full length bit of angle-iron, which covers the entire opening side of the door!

Regarding kicking the door open, I got a call to a big printers who had four guys run up to the secured front door, wedge it, and then start pulling on it! The four of them are on CCTV, pulling hard enough to pop the door open, because it was a fairly flexible glass and steel door. Utterly odd.

Anyway, my point is, kickers do it one way, but a flexible door helps anyone trying to jemmy or push the door open. A full length lock would really stop that cold, and kickers would be stumped, too, unless they cracked the door entirely lengthways.

Oh, and to answer TooMush - yes, but this thread isn't meant to be about poor door design, it's about making a better lock/lock system. I know the door is part of the system, but I don't want to make and sell doors!

[Rockford]

That's a great idea. Taking that and running with it, you get a full length bit of angle-iron, which covers the entire opening side of the door!

Wouldn't make the neatest of solutions though !

Some good ideas on the lock front, but I also agree the weak point is the door and frame - not the lock. I'm sure a solid oak door with reinforced frame and hinges, fitted with a 3 lever mortice lock - will be as thief resistant as a poor quality exterior door with a BS mortice lock (and I'm talking brute force opening - not picking).

You've mentioned UPVC below - why not consider something like a wrap-around patio door mechanism which locks the door into the frame on all 4 sides - almost like a vault. Obviously the locking part of the mechansim would need more than a Euro - or would it ?. If we are discussing brute force attacks, then a properly fitted Euro with Escutcheon can be BS rated!

[toomush2drink]

A lot of the new builds near me are now fitted heavy wooden doors with multipoint strips but most are of the full spindle type meaning anybody can just walk in. One builder reckons it helps with the disability laws as its easy access for a wheel chair user. Im looking at changing one to a split spindle for a friend and the ones fitted are of the krv type with 2 hook bolts and the euros have a restricted section and for once are fitted flush.Times are changing and even the developers are realising good wooden doors can offer better security than upvc. The doors glazing is double glazed though so its the best of both worlds.
The challenge of designing a new locks is a big one but i cannot see the point when most on the market already do a fine job and its only the ones with most marketing that are popular hence the reason we dont see bramah around that much.A bramah is going to defeat most people and yet its of an old design, if it aint broke...............

[gee252]

Give me a good wooden door any day.My house is a new build and has steel pressed wooden doors fitted front and back with a bs lock and a bolt top and bottom three good hinges would take some kicking in then i have upgraded the alarm they fitted with vibration sensors on all down stairs windows, then i fitted four inferred cctv cameras with 24hr recording.And everything is linked to an autodialler.
They call me Mr security man round here but its all the other plonkers who are getting things pinched and broken into.

[toomush2drink]

LOL your so right gee, my shed cost £200 but the security grille i had made up to protect it cost £220 with the 4 padlocks on it too.Some say its overkill but its not my shed that has been broken into like some of my neighbours.The funny thing is people laugh but even after having everything nicked they still dont want to invest in decent security.Your home is your biggest asset and good security is such a small percentage of what it is worth but they would still rather spend the money on the latest plasma screen tv !!

[nicholls]

It's not just me that sees it then?

I went to someone who has been burgled 5 times in a year, and i think is it any wonder? still after my advice on extra deadlock for front door etc. and other extra security measure in and around the garden, they still fail to spill any money on the matter, i wouldn't mind personnal that they can't aford it on a run down house but this is a detached house with land and mercs on the drive. The cleaver dumb balance is restored.