Making picks - Ti or Steel better?

[bprzybyl]

I've been making picks out of hacksaw blades for a little while now, and I've been getting decent at making picks. The only one I'm having trouble making at this point is a snake. I decided to try buying some metal stock to make a pick. Though I don't know what size to buy (thickness), I still need to make a decision between metals. I figure I could make picks out of either titanium or a high carbon steel. I just wanted to know if some people thought titanium would be better than steel. I kinda figure stainless steel is better, as it's already what all the pick manufacturers use.
It would also be great if someone could tell me what thickness to get. I was figuring a 0.020".

[Exodus5000]

Don't bother making picks out of Ti. It's too expensive and doesn't even have the best properties for picks. Use either a high carbon steel, stainless steel, or spring steel.

Peterson appears to have picks that are made out of steel that is .6mm thick. http://peterson-international.com/indiv ... d.htm#hook
I'd say that it's a safe size.

I've made picks out of all three materials I mentioned before, and I find if I shape it right, and sand/smooth/polish it up real well, that high carbon hacksaw blades are my favorite.

If you're having trouble shaping a snake rake, try using a dremel tool with cut off wheels and a set of files.

[raimundo]

If you make the picks of titanium, please post details on the source, price, what units its sold in, size etc. and the working aspects of the metal, does it grind well, does it fill the file with chatter etc. I have never used that metal, but I am interested in trying it. Also, tell us about how it finishes, does it sand to a smooth surface easily? what sandpaper to use etc.

[n2oah]

How about everyone just shuts up about ti for pick making? Don't you realize that titanium isn't some magic metal that makes everything better?

[illusion]

I guess it would be light, and strong... but probably not strong in the right sense, and prone to snapping because of stress - to be honest it's not like the steel ones weigh loads anyway...

I would like to see somebody make some and end this... if it's crap then at least there's proof...

anybody got an obscene amount of money, too much enthusiasm, and nothing better to do?

[Hardliner]

Titanium does not grind well, does not machine well and would not be a good choice for pick making. For starters, it "work hardens", meaning that it hardens while being ground/filed, etc. I would expect that over time the forces involved in lock picking would work harden the tool even further and make it brittle.

Also, with regard to my folding knives that have Titanium liner locks I notice that it wears much faster than those where the same component is made of hardened steel. I am thinking of two specific knives, roughly the same age and price point where the steel liner lock has not crept over since the day I bought it, whereas the Ti liner lock has worn over to the point where lock up is compromised and a factory warranty service will soon be required.

Titanium's #1 selling feature is it's strength-to-weight ratio. That is, a piece of the same dimensions as a steel part will be almost as strong but way lighter. Lockpicks are small, thin pieces of metal anyway so any weight savings are a non-issue.

[bprzybyl]

I wasn't doing this at all for a weight savings. I have one hook pick I made out of a steak knife I bought at big lots ($0.50, and I just had to thin it a little at the pick end). I'm getting around to taking the handle off, but it's not really a problem at all.

My rationale for Ti was strength. In learning, I bent the 1st pick I made, and have started to bend another. The main reason was for strength. I understand that after time things fatigue and will eventually fail (:cry:I'm paying ~$25,000 a year to ) But after picking 5 locks, with a huge bend after only 4 locks? Not acceptable.

As to n2oah's comment -
I appologize for causing any discontent with yourself or others, but I was just trying to bounce an idea off of others who may know a bit more than I do. Perhaps can you suggest another metal?

At this point, I think I'll probably try some 302 stainless steel. I've got some figures for stainless steel's ultimate stress values and such, and I know how to do some computations. Maybe I'll mess around with stuff a little. If I do order some, I'll get some Ti as well just to put this to rest. I have heard from my uncle (Machinist) that Ti is gummy when grinding.

Speaking of which. To anyone relatively new to grinding, like me, if you notice your grinding wheel is not cutting like it used to/should, you need to dress it. You buy something at sears or somewhere that sells grinding wheels (I forgot the name of it, but it's right by the wheels.) After running it across the wheel, with plenty of dust proceeding it, the wheel will cut MUCH better. Made the 20 or so year old wheels on my dad's grinder cut about 5x faster.

[master in training]

You picked 4 locks and bent your pick? You're using way too much tension, everyone else uses types of steel every day, there should be no need to think about different metals like Ti to make them stronger. You'll be amazed how little tension you actually need, read through digital_blue's guide and take the advice he gives, such as pinning a lock to only 1 pin and go from there.

Hope this helps.

~ MiT ~

[bprzybyl]

I am a product of digital_blue's guide. That's also where I bend my 1st pick (picking the 4th stage, hence on the 4th lock). I'll have to post a picture of my setup. digital_blue's guide is excellent. Anyone reading this who hasn't done it yet should do so...now.

I know now that I was using way too much tension, as well as some problems with making the pick (neck too skinny, no quenching). This is now more of a quest to find the best possible material for picks.

I'll keep everyone updated.

[mckutzy]

well if u dont make sharp corners, the tips should last longer. if u have any metalurgical skills try a quench and temper the blade of the pick. a piece of steel tempered well, will last a long time especialy in lockpick.

[wraith]

Titanium's #1 selling feature is it's strength-to-weight ratio. That is, a piece of the same dimensions as a steel part will be almost as strong but way lighter.

I laugh at every single titanium post i've read on this site, because of the "myths" that still are being posted as truths...

For the last time - TITANIUM IS NOT LIGHTER THAN STEEL!!!

Titanium's main selling point is it's corrosion resistance, not it's weight.

Titanium has a reputation for being lighter because LESS MATERIAL CAN BE USED IN AN APPLICATION BECAUSE WHEN IT'S ALLOYED, IT HAS MORE RESISTANCE TO FATIGUE, NOT BECAUSE IT'S STRONGER...

Thank you.

As for knife liner locks made out of titanium wearing quicker - that's absurd.

I am a HUGE titanium person, but I know it's strenths AND weaknesses. Do some research on Google.

Trey

[Aqua]

Actually pure Ti is much lighter than steel...

For those, who are more lazy than I am:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium

[bprzybyl]

This sounds like a good quality-

IT HAS MORE RESISTANCE TO FATIGUE

After all, we are not bringing it to the ultimate stress, or hopefully yield stress, or at least trying not to. After fatigue, the lowered ultimate shearing stress would bring broken picks. Coincidentally, we are just starting pure bending in class (not as easy as one would seem). Once I get a little more knowledge under my belt, I can do some computatin'.

As for all this contraversy, what's the problem? What if we find that this would work better? Why does everyone have to complain? I know to you guys I'm a complete n00b, but hey, if people believe titanium will help them pick locks better, why not?

[SFGOON]

Well why not a Uranium pick? It would glow, you could pick in the dark!

[chrometsuba]

how about a titanium pick set, with carbon fibre scales, and a big "R Type" logo.... not only will it be better then any other pick, it will be twice as fast.. =)

all joking aside,

is there any benefit of a Ti pick? will it provide better durability or less flex in use? anything?

apart from cost, and possibly the work hardening factor, is there any reason why a pick shouldn't be made from Ti?

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=322&step=2

A small sheet of Ti, 12x12 inches is $75, or 12x24 that for $82. Should be more then enough to make a few dozen picks. For experimentation, im sure you could get some small scraps from some place, enough to make a few test samples...