Deadbolt vs. Mortise (UK & US)

[devildog]

Ok, I know that a mortise lock technically weakens a door and that doesn't really matter, either, as long as it's a proper installation done on a proper door with a good frame, etc. So, I was wondering why exactly are mortise locks still mainly used instead of the deadbolt cylinder lock in the UK? Why are mortise locks still used at all in the U.S.? What advantages does the mortise have over the cylinder deadbolt?

I refer to it as a cylinder deadbolt, even though in the U.S. we just call it a 'deadbolt', because I know that in the U.K. any mortise lock with just a deadbolt is also simply referred to as a 'deadbolt', also if it has a latch along with the deadbolt it is referred to as a 'sashlock'. Also, deadbolts are much easier to install than a mortise, ESPECIALLY on a wooden door, sooo...??

[workstation]

I refer to it as a cylinder deadbolt, even though in the U.S. we just call it a 'deadbolt', because I know that in the U.K. any mortise lock with just a deadbolt is also simply referred to as a 'deadbolt', also if it has a latch along with the deadbolt it is referred to as a 'sashlock'. Also, deadbolts are much easier to install than a mortise, ESPECIALLY on a wooden door, sooo...??

A mortise lock with just a deadbolt and no latch is usually called a "deadlock". If you say "deadbolt" to me, with the implication that you mean a whole lock (i.e. a deadbolt lock), and not just a component, I immediately think of a US-style cylinder deadbolt. I don't know about other people, though.

[devildog]

You're correct, my mistake. We call it a 'deadbolt' and the Brits call it a 'deadlock'.

Oh, one more question. In the U.S., most decent exterior doors you can buy at the regular hardware/home improvement stores like Home Depot and Lowes come completely pre-drilled for a deadbolt so all you have to do is follow the directions for the deadbolt and screw it on; can you buy doors that are already prepared to take a certain mortice lock? For example, the Chubb 3G114 is pretty popular--can I buy a door that's already been perfectly mortised out for that specific lock? Do all the new mortice locks conform to the same dimensions to make things easier, perhaps? That way you could have a door that's been mortised to a generic 'standard' that all the new mortice locks will fit perfectly into, yes?

[toomush2drink]

The doors over here dont come pre prepared for a mortice lock so you fit locks after the dor is fitted. The biggest difference betweens the us and uk locks is that a uk mortice lock is completely inside of the door making any sort of tampering or picking of the lock difficult as you have to work out what type of lock it is by looking through the keyhole.The lock cases have hardplate on them to make drilling harder if it is a bs standard lock making destructive attacks difficult.

[ep3o]

I refer to it as a cylinder deadbolt, even though in the U.S. we just call it a 'deadbolt', because I know that in the U.K. any mortise lock with just a deadbolt is also simply referred to as a 'deadbolt', also if it has a latch along with the deadbolt it is referred to as a 'sashlock'. Also, deadbolts are much easier to install than a mortise, ESPECIALLY on a wooden door, sooo...??

A mortise lock with just a deadbolt and no latch is usually called a "deadlock". If you say "deadbolt" to me, with the implication that you mean a whole lock (i.e. a deadbolt lock), and not just a component, I immediately think of a US-style cylinder deadbolt. I don't know about other people, though.

I've been in the door hardware industry going on twelve years now. I was in wholesale working direct with manufacturers for most of it and now I'm in the contract hardware/locksmith side of it.

The correct terminology is as follows. A deadlock is what most people would consider a deadbolt lock. When you say deadbolt, you are actually reffering to the bolt itself. In a cylindrical type of deadlock it would be the bolt portion of it. The entire latch/bolt assembly is known as the deadbolt. In the case of the mortise deadlock again the deadbolt would be the mortise chassis with deadbolt only. That is why some mortise lock functions will read entrance with deadbolt. Or storeroom by deadbolt. This means that along with the entrance or storeroom latch mechanism the mortise chassis also contains an auxiliary mortise deadbolt.

The word dead in dead-bolt comes from the principle that the bolt is non-moving when either thrown(extended) or not thrown(retracted). Latches however are called latches because they have a spring loaded latching mechanism that can act freely of the lock it is connected to. When reffering to a lock you are reffering to the locking mechanism in the lock. For instance in a passage set it would incorrect to call it a passage lock. Instead it would be more correct to call it a passage lever or knob.

The reason this is important is because in the case of the deadlock there are times when the thumbturn and cylinder housing utilize a spring latch or deadlatch(spring latch with security mechanism). For us in the states this is common on swimming pool gates. Or apartment entrance gates. There is no lever but a what looks to be deadlock on the door. Your insert key, pull the latch back and enter. When you pull your key out the spring loaded latch extends and is able to latch itself back into the frame without you having to throw it with the thumbturn or key inside.

Hope that helps.

[raimundo]

The type of mortixe locks used in the UK are 'traditional' and you know how they are on tradition, the public there expects them. the things sold in the US are optimised for mass manufacture efficiency and the public is told what to buy by the industry that does the selling.

[workstation]

the public is told what to buy by the industry that does the selling.

This is true to a great extent here in the UK.
I think the internet will change things for the better eventually, though.

[oldlock]

I am familair with both deadbolts & deadlocks. For the most part 99 % of deadbolts are crap. Easy to fit, cheap to make, easy to break - crap.

Deadlocks on the other hand are far better, as long as they are well fitted almost any of them are miles better.

I'll let you guess what I use on my house ..........

Paul

[Raccoon]

I am familair with both deadbolts & deadlocks. For the most part 99 % of deadbolts are crap. ... Deadlocks on the other hand are far better

Until some marketing guru in the States decides to re-label the package to read "deadlock". Then what?

[vector40]

Ok, I know that a mortise lock technically weakens a door and that doesn't really matter, either, as long as it's a proper installation done on a proper door with a good frame, etc. So, I was wondering why exactly are mortise locks still mainly used instead of the deadbolt cylinder lock in the UK?

I assume you're talking about commercial applications; residential doors with mortise installations are, uh... rare.

[ep3o]

Ok, I know that a mortise lock technically weakens a door and that doesn't really matter, either, as long as it's a proper installation done on a proper door with a good frame, etc. So, I was wondering why exactly are mortise locks still mainly used instead of the deadbolt cylinder lock in the UK?

I assume you're talking about commercial applications; residential doors with mortise installations are, uh... rare.

Hey ever see those old Russwin mortise handlesets? LOL, they look cheesy but I have to admit, some of those sucker have stood the test of time. I see them on old houses, still working fine. Go figure....lol.

[devildog]

I assume you're talking about commercial applications; residential doors with mortise installations are, uh... rare.

Not in the UK they're not. Mortise lever locks are quite common there, whereas deadbolts aren't. I was wondering why and trying to get the advantages and disadvantages of each. And actually you do see quite a good number of mortise installations on residential doors, at least that I've noticed here in New Orleans. They're the typical cylinder and handle setup; still made by most of the quality lock manufacturers. I know Medeco has a nice little setup.

[vector40]

That's fair. I was thinking of the traditional knob-and-deadbolt setup.

I got a bunch of ollld Corbin/Russwin/Corbin-Russwin ( ) cylinders in a bulk order on eBay a while ago, ep3... the Russwins are the ugliest little brown lumps of brass you've ever seen, but I swear they still turn like they're buttered. D*mnable things.

[n2oah]

I am familair with both deadbolts & deadlocks. For the most part 99 % of deadbolts are crap. Easy to fit, cheap to make, easy to break - crap.

Would you include the high-end deadbolts in that statement (mult, medeco)?

[toomush2drink]

Lol deadlocks are a very common lock over here and there are a lot of different types which all have to be indentified through the keyhole. Check out the pic in this thread for an idea of different types we come up against and yes most are on residential property. http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=5927&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=150

Now be honest wouldnt you rather have something substantial in your door like one of this lot over a cylinder operated deadbolt ? Remember multi lock and other high end locks can be pulled, drilled etc but a mortice deadlock is whole new ball game, drill it wrong and the thing cant open unless you start drilling it to bits leaving a massive hole in the door in the process, oh and most have a hardplate covered case . Spoke to a guy the other day whos friend had spent a few days trying to overcome one and all because a piece of metal fell down when he drilled it, the offending metal prevented the bolt from retracting, a nightmare senario, hence the reason for learning to pick them.