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by ghiotion » 23 Jan 2006 1:19
Hey Everyone,
This is my first post, so please be gentle. I'm a hobbyist at this whole lockpicking thing. Long story short, I was out looking at houses with a real estate agent. The agent had a key to this property he was showing, but the key wouldn't work. The key inserted and turned the plug a little less than 45 degrees, then stopped. It was a deadbolt that looked quite similar to this one (notice the little circular knob to the right of the the latch).
http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/I/Zin ... 536680.htm
I got out my picks and went at it, but I had the same issue as the key. The real estate agent ended up breaking a window to get in as he had a bunch of appointments to show the property that day (I know, I know, should have called a real locksmith *blush*). When we got inside, I looked at the deadbolt and there was some sort of latching mechanism (the circular knob thing) that prevented even the key from unlocking it while it was in it's “set†state. This latch held the bolt in whatever position it was in when set.
Reading these posts, I know there must be a way to pick this kind of configuration, but darned if I can figure out how. I want to go out and buy one of these locks for practice, but I've no idea how to pick it. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Andrew
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by vector40 » 23 Jan 2006 1:45
Sounds like there's a snib of some sort that deadlocks the system from the inside. No way to open it from outside unless you can manipulate the inner latch.
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by Chrispy » 23 Jan 2006 8:38
Yup, the night latch function. It basically stops the entire lock mechanism from functioning, whether it be by a key, inside turnsnib or picks. A very tricky obstacle to negotiate. 
Some things may be pick proof, but everything can be bypassed....
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by ghiotion » 23 Jan 2006 10:39
Thanks guys. That's what I was afraid of.
Short of the brute force approach we used, how would you professionals have handled this? I'm always in favor of a clever solution over a violent one. I checked the other 2 doors on the house: one was painted shut and the other was frozen with rust.
Of course, this raises and interesting question: how did the person who last locked the house manage to throw the snib from the outside? It was an old lock, so perhaps it triggered on it's own but... I suppose I could construct an elaborate scenario involving monkeys and dog whistles, but Ockam's Razor and all that.
-Andrew
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by vector40 » 23 Jan 2006 20:15
That's what I've heard. The door slams and the snib falls accidentally.
I think they drill these, unless you can somehow letterbox the snib open.
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by Chrispy » 24 Jan 2006 8:14
vector40 wrote:I think they drill these, unless you can somehow letterbox the snib open.
Pretty much.
Some things may be pick proof, but everything can be bypassed....
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by Kodiak » 24 Jan 2006 10:19
How exactly does this "snib" work? It prevents the plug from making a complete turn? Also, does the "snib" or "night latch" come standard with certain brands of locks or is it somekind of add on device? I've never seen one.
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by Raccoon » 25 Jan 2006 2:35
I would be curious if this night latch could be slid open as easily as it closed. If someone locked the deadbolt from the outside and the latch set itself, then there's surely a way to reverse this (unless gravity was involved in some way).
If anyone's playing with one... See if rapping the lock would work, or perhaps vibrating the lock. If there is any amount of friction between the cylinder and "snib", perhaps violentely rotating the key-in-plug at a high rate of speed, back and forth, could encourage the night latch open.
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by vector40 » 25 Jan 2006 6:01
It's not supposed to do anything without, uh, human assistance. I think they just sometimes get worn or whatnot.
You don't see it much because it's mainly a UK thing, Kod.
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by Chrispy » 25 Jan 2006 6:42
I dunno vec, they're pretty common in Aus, mainly on Lockwoods old (and new) deadlatches. I've got one on my door. The snib basically blocks the working mechanism of the latch. A small bolt blocks the backwards movement of the latch whether it be by key from the outside or the latch-retracting turnsnib on the inside.
Some things may be pick proof, but everything can be bypassed....
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by vector40 » 25 Jan 2006 6:48
Sorry, okay -- mainly a not-US thing, anyway.
Do the Canucks see this? Can we generalize it to a British-colonized category? 
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by Varjeal » 25 Jan 2006 11:21
Not too many nightlatches around 'cept on very old homes that still have warded locks on them.
*insert witty comment here*
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by Raccoon » 25 Jan 2006 15:51
I dunno, my grandmother had one of these in Chicago, and a standard key-in-knob house lock. Both about the same age. Think I'm going to scope out some hardware stores to see where they're sold.
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by workstation » 25 Jan 2006 16:02
Maybe nightlatches are an urban thing?
I say this because nightlatches can be very irritating if you don't always want automatic locking, wheras with an entry knobset (or leverset) you have the choice between handle- and key entry from the outside.
Obviously it's cultural, but I suspect that the market for nightlatches in the UK is large because there are so many one-family houses in rows: terraces and semis. You don't find so many of those in the US, where, I'm told, most of the smaller homes are apartments, and the larger ones detached houses on relatively big plots.
Any other theories?
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by unbreakable » 25 Jan 2006 18:20
 So thats what that button does!!
I found one of these a while ago in an old box of locks of my dads. I opened it up, and took a look at the inside, and still wasn't sure what you'd use it for. Apparantely it was off one of our old houses (from the 1920s-30s). The house was located in Ontario, but I don't know if they were common in the area or if they were common all over Canada.
If anyone wants some pictures of the inner workings, just tell me and I'll take a few and post them.
Unbreakable
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