Lock Picking 101 Forum
A community dedicated to the fun and ethical hobby of lock picking.
       

Lock Picking 101 Home
Login
Profile
Members
Forum Rules
Frequent Forum Questions
SEARCH
View New Posts
View Active Topics


Live Chat on Discord
LP101 Forum Chat
Keypicking Forum Chat
Reddit r/lockpicking Chat



Learn How to Pick Locks
FAQs & General Questions
Got Beginner Questions?
Pick-Fu [Intermediate Level]


Ask a Locksmith
This Old Lock
This Old Safe
What Lock Should I Buy?



Hardware
Locks
Lock Patents
Lock Picks
Lock Bumping
Lock Impressioning
Lock Pick Guns, Snappers
European Locks & Picks
The Machine Shop
The Open Source Lock
Handcuffs


Member Spotlight
Member Introductions
Member Lock Collections
Member Social Media


Off Topic
General Chatter
Other Puzzles


Locksmith Business Info
Training & Licensing
Running a Business
Keyways & Key Blanks
Key Machines
Master Keyed Systems
Closers and Crash Bars
Life Safety Compliance
Electronic Locks & Access
Locksmith Supplies
Locksmith Lounge


Buy Sell Trade
Buy - Sell - Trade
It came from Ebay!


Advanced Topics
Membership Information
Special Access Required:
High Security Locks
Vending Locks
Advanced Lock Pick Tools
Bypass Techniques
Safes & Safe Locks
Automotive Entry & Tools
Advanced Buy/Sell/Trade


Locksport Groups
Locksport Local
Chapter President's Office
Locksport Board Room
 

night latch

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

night latch

Postby ghiotion » 23 Jan 2006 1:19

Hey Everyone,

This is my first post, so please be gentle. I'm a hobbyist at this whole lockpicking thing. Long story short, I was out looking at houses with a real estate agent. The agent had a key to this property he was showing, but the key wouldn't work. The key inserted and turned the plug a little less than 45 degrees, then stopped. It was a deadbolt that looked quite similar to this one (notice the little circular knob to the right of the the latch).

http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/I/Zin ... 536680.htm

I got out my picks and went at it, but I had the same issue as the key. The real estate agent ended up breaking a window to get in as he had a bunch of appointments to show the property that day (I know, I know, should have called a real locksmith *blush*). When we got inside, I looked at the deadbolt and there was some sort of latching mechanism (the circular knob thing) that prevented even the key from unlocking it while it was in it's “set” state. This latch held the bolt in whatever position it was in when set.

Reading these posts, I know there must be a way to pick this kind of configuration, but darned if I can figure out how. I want to go out and buy one of these locks for practice, but I've no idea how to pick it. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Andrew
ghiotion
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 22 Jan 2006 17:18
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Postby vector40 » 23 Jan 2006 1:45

Sounds like there's a snib of some sort that deadlocks the system from the inside. No way to open it from outside unless you can manipulate the inner latch.
vector40
 
Posts: 2335
Joined: 7 Feb 2005 3:12
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

Postby Chrispy » 23 Jan 2006 8:38

Yup, the night latch function. It basically stops the entire lock mechanism from functioning, whether it be by a key, inside turnsnib or picks. A very tricky obstacle to negotiate. :?
Image
Some things may be pick proof, but everything can be bypassed....
Chrispy
 
Posts: 3569
Joined: 24 Mar 2005 15:49
Location: GC, QLD

Postby ghiotion » 23 Jan 2006 10:39

Thanks guys. That's what I was afraid of.

Short of the brute force approach we used, how would you professionals have handled this? I'm always in favor of a clever solution over a violent one. I checked the other 2 doors on the house: one was painted shut and the other was frozen with rust.

Of course, this raises and interesting question: how did the person who last locked the house manage to throw the snib from the outside? It was an old lock, so perhaps it triggered on it's own but... I suppose I could construct an elaborate scenario involving monkeys and dog whistles, but Ockam's Razor and all that.

-Andrew
ghiotion
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 22 Jan 2006 17:18
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Postby vector40 » 23 Jan 2006 20:15

That's what I've heard. The door slams and the snib falls accidentally.

I think they drill these, unless you can somehow letterbox the snib open.
vector40
 
Posts: 2335
Joined: 7 Feb 2005 3:12
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

Postby Chrispy » 24 Jan 2006 8:14

vector40 wrote:I think they drill these, unless you can somehow letterbox the snib open.

Pretty much.
Image
Some things may be pick proof, but everything can be bypassed....
Chrispy
 
Posts: 3569
Joined: 24 Mar 2005 15:49
Location: GC, QLD

Postby Kodiak » 24 Jan 2006 10:19

How exactly does this "snib" work? It prevents the plug from making a complete turn? Also, does the "snib" or "night latch" come standard with certain brands of locks or is it somekind of add on device? I've never seen one.
Kodiak
 
Posts: 42
Joined: 2 Aug 2005 23:09
Location: Ohio

Postby Raccoon » 25 Jan 2006 2:35

I would be curious if this night latch could be slid open as easily as it closed. If someone locked the deadbolt from the outside and the latch set itself, then there's surely a way to reverse this (unless gravity was involved in some way).

If anyone's playing with one... See if rapping the lock would work, or perhaps vibrating the lock. If there is any amount of friction between the cylinder and "snib", perhaps violentely rotating the key-in-plug at a high rate of speed, back and forth, could encourage the night latch open.
Raccoon
Supporter
Supporter
 
Posts: 3137
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 4:23

Postby vector40 » 25 Jan 2006 6:01

It's not supposed to do anything without, uh, human assistance. I think they just sometimes get worn or whatnot.

You don't see it much because it's mainly a UK thing, Kod.
vector40
 
Posts: 2335
Joined: 7 Feb 2005 3:12
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

Postby Chrispy » 25 Jan 2006 6:42

I dunno vec, they're pretty common in Aus, mainly on Lockwoods old (and new) deadlatches. I've got one on my door. The snib basically blocks the working mechanism of the latch. A small bolt blocks the backwards movement of the latch whether it be by key from the outside or the latch-retracting turnsnib on the inside.
Image
Some things may be pick proof, but everything can be bypassed....
Chrispy
 
Posts: 3569
Joined: 24 Mar 2005 15:49
Location: GC, QLD

Postby vector40 » 25 Jan 2006 6:48

Sorry, okay -- mainly a not-US thing, anyway.

Do the Canucks see this? Can we generalize it to a British-colonized category? :lol:
vector40
 
Posts: 2335
Joined: 7 Feb 2005 3:12
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

Postby Varjeal » 25 Jan 2006 11:21

Not too many nightlatches around 'cept on very old homes that still have warded locks on them.
*insert witty comment here*
Varjeal
Moderator Emeritus
 
Posts: 2869
Joined: 3 Oct 2003 15:05
Location: Western Canada

Postby Raccoon » 25 Jan 2006 15:51

I dunno, my grandmother had one of these in Chicago, and a standard key-in-knob house lock. Both about the same age. Think I'm going to scope out some hardware stores to see where they're sold.
Raccoon
Supporter
Supporter
 
Posts: 3137
Joined: 27 Dec 2004 4:23

Postby workstation » 25 Jan 2006 16:02

Maybe nightlatches are an urban thing?

I say this because nightlatches can be very irritating if you don't always want automatic locking, wheras with an entry knobset (or leverset) you have the choice between handle- and key entry from the outside.

Obviously it's cultural, but I suspect that the market for nightlatches in the UK is large because there are so many one-family houses in rows: terraces and semis. You don't find so many of those in the US, where, I'm told, most of the smaller homes are apartments, and the larger ones detached houses on relatively big plots.

Any other theories?
workstation
 
Posts: 131
Joined: 17 Sep 2005 9:01
Location: United Kingdom

Postby unbreakable » 25 Jan 2006 18:20

:D So thats what that button does!! :D

I found one of these a while ago in an old box of locks of my dads. I opened it up, and took a look at the inside, and still wasn't sure what you'd use it for. Apparantely it was off one of our old houses (from the 1920s-30s). The house was located in Ontario, but I don't know if they were common in the area or if they were common all over Canada.

If anyone wants some pictures of the inner workings, just tell me and I'll take a few and post them.

Unbreakable
unbreakable
 
Posts: 1682
Joined: 28 Oct 2005 18:55
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Next

Return to Got Questions? - Ask Beginner Hobby Lockpicking Questions Here

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests