Whats the most used tool in your kit.

[11]

I would have to say my 2in1 pick and my CB curtain pick. Invaluable.

In relation to vans - i don't use one. I only do lockouts and the odd change so i don't need to carry anymore than i can carry in a tankbag / panniers on a bike.

Am i the only person who uses two wheels by the way??????

[toomush2drink]

In relation to vans - i don't use one. I only do lockouts and the odd change so i don't need to carry anymore than i can carry in a tankbag / panniers on a bike.

Am i the only person who uses two wheels by the way?????? Shocked

As you only do lock outs and carry very little how can you do the job properly ? For example i did a job today where a pbs1 had failed not allowing the customer to get out of the property, he was understandbly concerned incase of a fire.I opened the lock ok from the outside after i got him to pass the keys out and replaced the lock like for like, how do you cope with this ?

Im sorry but i have to say, its things like this which are killing the industry.

[illusion]

Im sorry but i have to say, its things like this which are killing the industry.

To be honest at least he opens lever locks ND it seems, so I hardly call this ruining the industry - drilling outright ruins it, but I do appreciate somebody who bothers to pick open locks rather than merely buggering up the lock.

He gets them in, and that is it... to this extent it's the job of a full locksmith who fits lock to be able to provide the services you talk of...

[paul1982]

I would have to say my 2in1 pick and my CB curtain pick. Invaluable.

In relation to vans - i don't use one. I only do lockouts and the odd change so i don't need to carry anymore than i can carry in a tankbag / panniers on a bike.

Am i the only person who uses two wheels by the way??????

I have used my bike quite a few times now much easier and quicker

[vector40]

The responsible thing for a lockout-only worker to do would simply be to ensure before taking a callout that it is well and truly a lockout -- the key does exist, the lock does work, they don't need an extra dupe, and so forth. If you actually are on-site and discover additional work is needed that you can't cover (such as replacing hardware you don't carry, due to malfunction or a forced destructive entry), I would... well, if I drilled the lock, I would have it replaced at no cost or trouble for the customer, whether it took a ride to a local Home Depot, stopping by the shop of a 'smith, or whatever. If it was something unrelated to my work, I would probably advise they contact a full-service locksmith at their convenience (and recommend one).

There's no reason offering a smaller range of services should be necessarily short shrift for the customer. A plumber doesn't worry that he can't rewire the lights.

[toomush2drink]

To be honest at least he opens lever locks ND it seems, so I hardly call this ruining the industry - drilling outright ruins it, but I do appreciate somebody who bothers to pick open locks rather than merely buggering up the lock.

He gets them in, and that is it... to this extent it's the job of a full locksmith who fits lock to be able to provide the services you talk of...

My point is what does he call himself if cant say cope with the job i described ? It was a true storey of a job i had, if you call a locksmith you expect to be helped, but what does a lock out only guy say in this situation ? Call a proper locksmith perhaps ? It annoys me that after spending a small fortune setting up and "doing it properly" so to say, that people like this are operating and creaming off the work that suits them.The sooner this industry get regulation the better, after all if your an honest lockie trying to earn a living you have nothing to worry about, right ?

[toomush2drink]

There's no reason offering a smaller range of services should be necessarily short shrift for the customer. A plumber doesn't worry that he can't rewire the lights.

Ok its 1am and hes called 118 247 asking for a locksmith and his number gets put across, so he goes to the job but cant complete it as he doesnt have the stock and cant go anywhere to get it due to the time of day, now would you as a customer be happy with this ?After all you did call a locksmith, but you got a what ? a lockout only guy ?
A plumber fixes water problems not wiring so whats that got to do with it ?A locksmith sorts out lock problems, oh unless hes on a bike i presume ? Its not the concept of using a bike that winds me up but rather the lack of professional commitment to the trade. I see it a bit like a painter who only does painting, but doesnt do any preparation etc.

[vector40]

I do understand your thinking. But I also feel that lockout work is a legitimate subset of locksmithing, and while it can be done as a tie-in with other work (gaining entry, then offering to cut another key, then doing a security assessment and fitting them some new locks, that sort of thing), it need not necessarily be... as a matter of fact I know a number of 'smiths who tend to do very little lockout work anyway, just because it's a very minor part of their income compared to large-scale commercial work. And a conscientous lockout specialist (and that is what I would call myself) can take good care of pretty much everyone who dials his number, whether that means deferring the job to someone else or whatever needs doing.

Obviously situations vary. But with all respect toomush (and I mean that), could you be viewing the situation with a bit of a biased eye, that of a member of the field who needs the work to make a living?

[acl]

I see what youre getting at Vector but i have to agree with Toomush really.Does this guy advertise himself in the Locksmith section of the books/papers ? or just under Lockouts? You say you know smiths who do very little lockout work but surely they would be capable of doing it?.
Having said this i do know one guy who is a member here who did his work on a pushbike for a while (it was the magistrates who made this possible!) and he did do it around Central Cambridge so two wheels makes sense.
On another point ,i noticed remarks on the fact hes doing NDE makes it ok and anyone using a drill is killing this industry. Now i know this is a lockpicking site and its why we are all here,and i have said this in the past so hear me out here ok!
I have a guy who does warrants for me every day,hes been doing warrants longer than i have,hes about 45 and been a locksmith since he left school.
Now whilst he picks clyinder locks,if he is faced with any 5 lever lock,Chubb,Era legge whatever, the drill comes out simple as that. He wouldnt dream of spending his hard earned on a decoder or a p+c,he was taught this way and hes not like us ,to him this is just a job . The drill will get him in quickly and thats the end of it. If the debt agencies said tomorrow no locks were to be drilled again im sure hed have to rethink but as it stands he just gets on with it drill in hand!. I cant ever remember having a complaint about his work and its very rare to have a lockchange.

Is he killing this industry? Is he running courses in his back room churning out 5 new locksmiths a week? Is he promising those new"locksmiths" theyll earn 2k a week? Is he filling the Yelow pages with multiple ads? Is he ripping old grannies off every day?Is he contacting debt agencies and undercutting the tried and tested locksmiths so we all have to work for a pittance?
The answer is no hes not.So is he killing the industry i dont think so. I find it unfair that these guys get put in the same boat as RF etc.
Give me a choice of who id have doing warrants ,him or a guy on here who is a whizz at picking 114s on a bench but had no experience whatsoever i know who id take.
Feel free to lay into me on this one please. I DO practice NDE (kind off some would say!) and i ,like you lot, am pretty anal about locks etc but just because another guy is not i dont beleve he is contributing to the death of this industry.
Andy

[vector40]

I see what youre getting at Vector but i have to agree with Toomush really.Does this guy advertise himself in the Locksmith section of the books/papers ? or just under Lockouts?

Obviously one would assume "Locksmith" since that's what people will be looking for, but that's just a question of marketing. Indeed the one guy I know who does only lockouts states explicitly in his ads/business cards that he's a lockout specialist... actually he lists exactly what services he offers, which is a pretty straightforward way to go.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, though. Is your concern about the use of the "locksmith" label?

[acl]

Can you advertise yourself as alocksmith if you cant carry out one of the most common tasks that we are asked to do such as supplying and fitting a mortice lock ? When i say "you " i mean you in general not you personally.

[Tattoo Guy]

You can pretty much advertise yourself as a locksmith no matter what your skills are, as so many people have found out.
If you can use a drill you can call yourself a locksmith.

[EvoRed]

Ok its 1am and hes called 118 247 asking for a locksmith and his number gets put across

Good one Toomush!

[vector40]

Can you advertise yourself as alocksmith if you cant carry out one of the most common tasks that we are asked to do such as supplying and fitting a mortice lock ? When i say "you " i mean you in general not you personally.

Why not? I understand that doing so may be a little annoying to full-service lockies with a h*ll of a lot more time, money, and dependence invested in their business, but practically speaking it's just a word. If it communicates the right idea to the customer, that's what matters.

To be fair I would not, under those circumstances, describe myself as a "locksmith" to a fellow locksmith, or I would at least qualify the word heavily.

[acl]

Ok i see what your getting at but say you called an electrician out to wire a new light switch and he tells you "dont do light switches only plug sockets" youre not going to think hes much of an electrician are you?
I appreciate that there are many categories that come under the locksmith banner ie, autolocksmith,safe engineer,acces control etc etc and some dont fall into all of those categories,i myself for example do not do any auto work at all. But the thing that Toomush and i are pointing out here is that on a pushbike you clearly cannot carry enough stock or tools to cover many jobs that fall into the category of even general locksmith.