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Bump Key HAMMERS--please post ideas, designs, pics, info etc

Bump keys and lock bumping finally have their own area. Discuss making bump keys, proper bumping techniques, and countermeasures here.

Postby illusion » 15 Feb 2006 17:44

KeBum :wink:

I wish I could say mone is finely calculated, but it's visibly not - it does however work :)
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Postby Omikron » 15 Feb 2006 17:52

Jarod wrote:
Omikron wrote:There are people on this board that have already gone through all the trouble of calculating the right amount of weight, dimensions, etc. :-P


ok, so the results are...


Well preliminary results are here: viewtopic.php?t=10906

Final results are here: viewtopic.php?t=11642
Image
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Postby zeke79 » 15 Feb 2006 18:05

Jarod,

I do not want to sound like a jerk when I say this as I am generally one to share all info I have, but I am not going to post any detailed info of the tomahawk right now as Omikron has gone through alot of work to bring a very comparible if not better tool to us. I will likely let Omi get some sales for the next few months before I post any detailed info as I do not want to undercut the efforts he has put into this project.

If this offends anyone then I guess they will just have to be offended.
For the best book out there on high security locks and their operation, take a look at amazon.com for High-Security Mechanical Locks An Encyclopedic Reference. Written by our very own site member Greyman! A true 5 Star read!!
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Postby n2oah » 15 Feb 2006 18:10

zeke79 wrote:If this offends anyone then I guess they will just have to be offended.


I'm offended! :P
"Lockpicking is what robbing is all about!" says Jim King.
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Postby zeke79 » 15 Feb 2006 18:13

Noah, Noah... Always stirrin the pot arent ya :lol: . Has anyone ever told you that you are like a young teenager :P !!
For the best book out there on high security locks and their operation, take a look at amazon.com for High-Security Mechanical Locks An Encyclopedic Reference. Written by our very own site member Greyman! A true 5 Star read!!
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Postby Omikron » 15 Feb 2006 18:27

zeke79 wrote:Jarod,

I do not want to sound like a jerk when I say this as I am generally one to share all info I have, but I am not going to post any detailed info of the tomahawk right now as Omikron has gone through alot of work to bring a very comparible if not better tool to us. I will likely let Omi get some sales for the next few months before I post any detailed info as I do not want to undercut the efforts he has put into this project.

If this offends anyone then I guess they will just have to be offended.


I think I need to elaborate a bit further on this comment.

I want to make clear that I did not blindly copy the Tomahawk and just rename it as KEbump. Obviously, the Tomhawk very heavily influenced the design of the KEbump; this is for several reasons, and I will explain some of them below.

Although I could have easily tried to get a hold of a Tomhawk and reverse engineer all of the materials and just do a blind copy, there's not a whole lot of fun in that. Early last semester, I decided that I would focus one of my final exam presentations on the mechanical manipulation of pin tumbler locks through the use of kinetic energy.

In order to make things semi-scientific, I had to take measurements. The first measurements I took helped me find the average spring tension in pin stacks across several popular brands and types. To do this, I milled a block of acrylic and drilled several chambers which I then populated with different types of springs and pins. The device is seen below:

Image

By measuring the distance the pins traveled when the stack was loaded with a weight, I was able to calculate the spring constant for five different types of springs. Strangely enough, these values are very close to each other.

By using a myriad of different formulas, and with some help from SolidWorks, I was able to make an educated estimate of what density the striking surface should be in order to impart the correct amount of kinetic energy. Obviously this was not an exact science because everyone swings the hammer at a different rate, but I was able to find a happy medium.

After creating the prototype, which you can see in one of my former threads, I sent a few of them out for testing and feedback. Most of the major design of the KEbump, although heavily influenced by the Tomahawk, was done independantly without previous knowledge of exact Tomahawk specifications.

After the beta testing phase, some refinements were made to the design in order to make the tool more comfortable to hold, and to reflect the type of design that people are already familiar with. Making a radically different design would be unncessary and would turn people off, thinking that it was somehow an inferior product.

I hope this information gives people a better idea of what went on behind the scenes during KEbump development. Once the product launches in a few weeks, I will post a more detailed project log and show off my earlier designs and failures. I hope this helps. :-P
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Postby zeke79 » 15 Feb 2006 18:32

Omikron,

I apologize if I made it sound as though you "copied" the Tomahawk. I know you put alot of work into this and I do not want to undercut your work. I am not saying I will not post details of the Tomahawk. I am only stating that for right now I am keeping that to myself so your KEBump gets the attention it deserves. This is MY personal choice to do. BTW, I will be placing an order for my very own KEBump soon!
For the best book out there on high security locks and their operation, take a look at amazon.com for High-Security Mechanical Locks An Encyclopedic Reference. Written by our very own site member Greyman! A true 5 Star read!!
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Postby Omikron » 15 Feb 2006 18:43

zeke79 wrote:Omikron,

I apologize if I made it sound as though you "copied" the Tomahawk. I know you put alot of work into this and I do not want to undercut your work. I am not saying I will not post details of the Tomahawk. I am only stating that for right now I am keeping that to myself so your KEBump gets the attention it deserves. This is MY personal choice to do. BTW, I will be placing an order for my very own KEBump soon!


No offense taken zeke79. I was just explaining part of the development process for others who may think that it was a blind copy. I know it's your decision. In fact, anyone who has any product technically has the right to post information about it. :-P
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Postby n2oah » 15 Feb 2006 18:55

zeke79 wrote:Noah, Noah... Always stirrin the pot arent ya :lol: . Has anyone ever told you that you are like a young teenager :P !!


You should hear the comments I make during classes! :lol:
"Lockpicking is what robbing is all about!" says Jim King.
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Postby Jarod » 15 Feb 2006 22:28

zeke79 wrote:Jarod,

I do not want to sound like a jerk when I say this as I am generally one to share all info I have, but I am not going to post any detailed info of the tomahawk right now as Omikron has gone through alot of work to bring a very comparible if not better tool to us. I will likely let Omi get some sales for the next few months before I post any detailed info as I do not want to undercut the efforts he has put into this project.

If this offends anyone then I guess they will just have to be offended.


I understand completely zeke, no problem at all. i'm not offended, i just wondered if it was already posted somewhere and i'd overlooked, or something else, so i remembered the saying: "the only stupid question is the one you don't ask" so i thought i'd ask, and now i see why i could not find the information that i was looking for. i'm very sorry if i came across as though i was trying to pry it away from you. i'm just one of those people that can't be bothered to spend money on anything (which seems stupid because it is only money) thanks for explanign your stand to me, and once again, no offence taken (y'know i've never taken offence to anything)
btw: omi... that acrylic pin stack emulator is AWESOME!!!! dude that'd make the coolest paperweight!!!! :D
Image
^ salvaged from old post by macaba
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Postby Omikron » 16 Feb 2006 1:31

Jarod wrote:btw: omi... that acrylic pin stack emulator is AWESOME!!!! dude that'd make the coolest paperweight!!!! :D


That's actually not a bad idea....

Methinks I'm going to mill another block for the sole purpose of showing off all the different types of springs and pins!
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Postby Dent » 20 Feb 2006 3:37

Hmm can you put an additional circular cut(sideways) in and have a working clear acrylic cynlinder?

another idea would just have a sliding rectangle in the middle, so that when the pin stacks are aligned you can slide the rectangle out(instead of the turning of the cynlinder which might have problems in acrylic). Plus tension could be applied just by pushing on the rectangle and then picking could be done with some type of pen, paperclip, whatever can just push against the pin stack

Would be cool to show off serrated/spool/mushroom etc type pins and at the same time be able to show someone how pins must align at the shear line for the "lock" to open.
Image
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Postby peachey16 » 17 Mar 2006 12:52

ok ive had a look at a fellow lokies KeBump hammer and i had an idea.
as im still at school i get a lot of rulers come my way *coff* *coff*
so when i got hold of a metal rule and a flimsy plastic one this is what i came up with;
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c327/ ... bump11.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c327/ ... ebump1.jpg

there are untested but ill have a go this weekend and keep you informed.

the actual head is made from a rubber that is applied to the floor to lessen the impact of walking.
i think the look rather cool myself 8) 8) :lol:
Image
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Postby illusion » 17 Mar 2006 13:06

:?

Yuk comes to mind...

The rubber bit at the end is really squidgy if it's like the stuff the have at my school... I drove one of my mate's head into it and it literaly bounced! In my defence it was provoked, an eye for an eye and all :wink:

So yeah - I think the rubber would absorb almost all the the impact so meaning you'ld have to make the handle onger ad swing it like a mace to get the lock to bump. :P

If it works then that's cool. :)
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Postby peachey16 » 17 Mar 2006 13:44

actually the rubber is realy quite stiff

lp
Image
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