Security of the Burg Waechter TSE Keyless Entry system?

[mh]

Dear all,

As a keyless entry option I'm considering a system called Burg Waechter TSE 300x, which basically consists of a keypad to be mounted *outside* of the door, and a Euro-cylinder with an outside knob and a clutch that only engages if the keypad sends a 'signal' to the cylinder.

A picture is included in the brochure:
http://www.burg-waechter.de/WGBurgWaech ... wnload.pdf

My concern is that 'signal' the keypad sends to the cylinder.

Has anyone tried that system and had a closer look?
Because the keypad is mounted on the outside of the door, and it can apparently be removed rather easily, a burglar would have easy access to the wires which go to the cylinder.

Does anyone know if that 'signal' is secured, e.g. encrypted, digitally signed, etc, and therefore cannot be reproduced by such burglar,
or just a simple voltage, and the whole system is rather insecure?

Thanks,
mh

[dazza]

HI

also there might be the problem that if you used the same code for a long time the buttons would look used this giving any burglar some ideas of the numbers .i would use has many numbers has allowed so that the burglar would find it hard to get the sequence. and there is the problem that someone might see you putting the numbers in.

but has I'm not a locksmith or had any experience with these locks i don't know the answer to your question. but just coming up with more problems you might encounter.

[mh]

I agree that guessing the code from the look of the keys (used, dirty, ...) can be a problem with all code locks.

"Codic" once invented a slider that was supposed to clean the (flat) keypad everytime you closed the slider, but I doubt that this helped much. Esp. since the "wiping cloth" wears down soon.

But any comments on the wires to the cylinder?

Thanks,
mh

[Omikron]

In my experience, these types of systems just send a DC current to the latch, which then activates and allows you to retract it by turning the handle or knob. I've disected quite a few of these electronic code-lock type systems and I'm not satisfied with the low-end models. High security models will usually involve running data lines through reinforced conduit through the walls to the door jam. In these systems, it is the jam the disengages, not the latch in the door, thus reducing access to the locking system for purposes of destructive entry.

[toomush2drink]

If you want to go keyless how about a transpondertype system instead ? Instead of the keypad you would have a fob reader which you pass your key fob over to allow access. There are also some remote control type systems like the locca setups which you use a remote control type fob similar to a car alarm.

[mh]

If you want to go keyless how about a transpondertype system instead ?

well, that's an option, but it requires to carry the transponder instead of the key.
I looked into that as well, and e.g. this system
viewtopic.php?t=11886
offers both (keyfob, or optionally a keypad that sends the commands after you enter the correct code).

But they have different price tags, and therefore I wanted to learn about the security of this BurgWaechter system (which is a little bit cheaper).

Thanks,
mh

[dean1]

I have been fitting these for over 2 years with no problems & they use the same key pad on the euro grade safes

[mh]

I have been fitting these for over 2 years with no problems & they use the same key pad on the euro grade safes

That's a good point, indeed the high-end version of the TSE (3003 premium) door system is also used on their safes,
http://www.tresore.net/Bedienungsanleit ... sional.pdf
and in that application it's even VdS-approved.

But I still have some doubts:
In the safe application, the keypad & display are on the outside of the safe, but I'm 99.9% sure that the 'intelligent' part that actually stores the combination(s) and 'makes the decisions' is well protected on the inside of the safe.

In the door application, is the 'intelligent part' really on the inside of the door??
Does the euro-cylinder that's supplied with the TSE door system have such electronics built-in?

Thanks,
Michael